The place of the prophet in the new testament.

[stevehut]

Actually my hubby plays with snakes all the time (he is a redneck) and if I accidentally drank poision, I would have enough faith that I would be healed. ANy other questions?

That wasn't the question. It was about spiritual gifts to be exercised within the church.

If these other things (tongues, prophets, healing, etc.) are valid gifts to be regularly exercised and encouraged, what of the serpents and poison?

[One Way]

Here is where we disagree OneWay (I think)  I believe in all the gifts of the Spirit as mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12:27-31.

1- That was before we had a completed New Testament to guide us.

2- You will always be held responsible by God for your own actions. No matter what a church leader does, each of us must exercise sound judgment and discernment. And any church leader who gives bad advice, is accountable as well.

So there are no more miracles, teachers, healings, tongues or apostles either?

Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

1 Corinthians 12:27-31

Interesting. Good point. I'll look into this because I'm not sure how to respond. But, when something comes up that I don't know, I always fall back on what I do know. And, I do know that Jesus was that great Prophet, the Word of God, that was prophesied in Deut.

Deu 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

And that Hebrews states that God "hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son," instead of through the method He used in the past, which was by prophets who spoke forth His word.

Also, let's remember the test of a prophet of God.

Deu 18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

Deu 18:21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?

Deu 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

A prophet who speaks for God must be 100% accurate or he was to be put to death. I'm not sure there are prophets anymore along the line of those in the OT.

We have many who claim to be... in the LDS sect and I know Phelps from Westboro calls himself a prophet... and I'm one according to that "spiritial gifts test" Now, I'd never declare myself as a prophet. The only time you'll hear me say "Thus saith the Lord" is when I'm reading His holy word!

I'd be suspect of anyone saying, "hearken unto me for I am a prophet. This is what the Lord would have you do."

I'd respond with, "the Lord has my address. If He wants me to do such and such I'm sure He'll lay that on my heart."

Thanks for the scripture though because I always like to search out new things! I'' PM you when I find out more... or post to this thread if it isn't too old.

[WISDOM]

Welcome to WorthyBoard, Ayubu......

Your topic is a very good one, and you have been receiving some very insightful responses. However, for good housekeeping sake I am going to move this thread to the "Doctrinal Questions" Forum.

Please enjoy your time and fellowshiping here!

[Guest idied2]

The religious people didn't think they needed john the baptist or JESUS either. Their knowledge and kingdom was complete to. How wrong were they?

Mt 23:34

Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city,

Lu 11:49

Therefore the wisdom of God also said, 'I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and persecute,

Nothing has changed. Nothing new under the sun.

Re 11:7

When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them.

I hope that you are not part of that beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit. Because those who crucified CHRIST are dead. But their spirit is still alive and well in their children.

Mt 25:41

Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug:

[nebula]

Actually my hubby plays with snakes all the time (he is a redneck) and if I accidentally drank poision, I would have enough faith that I would be healed.  ANy other questions?

That wasn't the question. It was about spiritual gifts to be exercised within the church.

If these other things (tongues, prophets, healing, etc.) are valid gifts to be regularly exercised and encouraged, what of the serpents and poison?

There's a little Scripture about not putting God to the test. You know that one?

I don't agree with the "snake-handlers'" churches stuff.

But, I recall an account in acts where Paul was bitten by a serpent and it didn't harm him.

Context, you know?

[stevehut]

1- There's a little Scripture about

[Guest Called]

So once again: If present day prophets are valid as an ongoing church office, then should not the snakes and poison be recognized as gifts for regular practicefor modern believers?

Actually I was joking about my hubby and drinking poison.

Anyway, the most reliable early manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have Mark 16:9-20. Most scholars think that verse 8 is the original ending. The questions that have arose as to whether vs 9-20 are reliable has indicated that vs 9-20 are not to be used as the sole basis for Doctrine (like the snake handlers base their doctrine on). Threefore we should base that passage in context with the rest of scripture. However, tongues and prophets are mentioned more than in that passage, whereas drinking poision and handling snakes are not (except for the verse that says we will tread on snakes and scorpions). I hope this answers your question, I did alot of research and study on this because I was Baptist and I didn't understand the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Now, i am done in this thread. I know what the Bible says in this area. Thanks for your insight! God Bless!

Debbie

[stevehut]

Interesting. Good point. I'll look into this because I'm not sure how to respond. But, when something comes up that I don't know, I always fall back on what I do know.

Very commendable. And honest.

[stevehut]

1- Actually I was joking about my hubby and drinking poison.

2- Anyway, the most reliable early manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have Mark 16:9-20.  Most scholars think that verse 8 is the original ending.

1- Ah, I see. As it happens, many people have used that very reasoning with me before in some form, with no hint of joking.

2- Yes, I am aware of that. But many Pentecostals and Charismatics are quick to vouch for their authenticity, because it mentions the gifts. That is why I have used it here.

[Scudbuddy]

Steve Hut,

Your premise that we do not need the prophetic ministry anymore because we have the word has some major problems with it. One it is not biblical. There isn't any verse that makes that statement. Second, the five fold ministry is described in the NT to equip the saints till the church comes into unity. I think it is obvious that the saints still need equipping, and that the church is not unified.

In areas where the saints walk in the fulness of apostolic and prophetic mantles, the churches underneath them do have a much more unified cohesion. (I oppose much of the self-given titles many so called "apostles" and "prophets" have due to the fact that many do not show the signs of the office. i.e. character, signs and wonders, etc......) These saints who actually walk in it this type of office rarely acknowledge such because they are too busy doing the calling of their ministry. Many of them are overseas, and most have never heard of them. But if you were Ananais and Sapphaira, these would not be guys on your list to invite over after a fund raiser. I have met these saints, and their churches are on fire, and the fear of God is alive and well in their midst. I have ministered overseas, and I have seen these mantles in operation. Because of these types of ministry overseas, the churches in many third world countries are packed out to the point of 24/7 services to accomodate the masses.

In fact Signs and Wonders are so strong overseas, that the Southern Baptist at a recent convention voted on whether or not to kick out the missionaries who believed in a Spirit-filled theology. They came to the conclusion that they would have very few missionaries left if they did. Their people lose that theology in the third world often because of the obvious being presented to them on a weekly basis. God still heals and performs miracles.

As far as what can a prophetic ministry do for the present day church. I saw one prophetic minister who operates in a realm rarely seen call 2 people up to the front. They were both married, but their divorce had went through that day. Neither knew the other was there that day. It was a very large setting. This prophet began to tell the man in front of everyone the major sins that he had been involved in that had led to their marraige breaking up. Many of these things the wife did not know about. He confessed it was all true. This prophet told this man he had one year to repent and get right with God, and then God would deal severely. This man cried out that he did not need a year, and repented right there, and God began to heal their marraige.

I hope that this story will be enough to convince you of the need. I have many more if you would like more examples.

Get the book "Suprised by the Power of God." by Dr. Jack Deere. He taught at Dallas Theological Seminary the very principals that you espouse. He had an encounter with God that messed his theology up along with 2 other DTS proffesors, and got them kicked out of the Seminary. He point by point destroys the theology that the miraculous ended with the bible being written.

It is time for the church to again believe that God is still actually God and can still do the stuff.