Who was Jesus?

[mikerunk]

Who is Jesus? That is the question I have been looking in to the past few days. My salvation and the salvation of every single person on this planet rest on this very matter. It is our faith in Christ and who he is and that he died for our sins and was resurrected that is the back bone of our faith.

Yet answering this question is not a simple as one might think. This brings me to the reason for this post. I came across two articles if you will that both go in to this very subject of who Christ is. Both of these articles are very well written and thought out, they are also backed up by scripture which only further complicate this subject matter.

The first article was written by Blindseeker who posted this on the worthy boards and was kind enough to point me to it. In his article (which I will post) he says that Christ was God made flesh. He very elegantly backs this up with scripture. After reading his article one can

[mikerunk]

The first article is by our very own Blind Seeker.

Justified In the Spirit

God has promised in Hebrews 11:6 to reward us with understanding if we would "diligently" seek Him. Answering His call to personal holiness, picking up our crosses and following Him is how we seek Him. To those who obey this mandate Jesus said He would give to them "to know the mystery of the kingdom of God" (Mark 4:11).

We are required to "diligently" seek if we are to find, just as we must actively knock if the door of understanding is to be opened unto us. We must humbly acknowledge our ignorance and ask for understanding if we are to be enlightened by God's Holy Spirit. Nothing is more blinding than the light one proudly thinks himself to have. Yet, all our seeking, knocking, and asking must be with an intention of true faithfulness if we are to receive anything from God. It is only when "our hearts condemn us not" of sin that we have true "confidence" toward God. It is in that place and condition that "whatsoever we ask, we receive of Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight" (I John 3:21,22).

However, the reveiling of God's precious truths is often time progressive. Seeing God's truth given one tidbit at a time is not rare. Holy men of old often prophesied of future events in fragments, "here a little" and then in another text, perhaps even another prophet, "there a little." This method of enlightenment is in exact accordance with what the bible teaches us. I Corinthians 13:9 tells us plainly that we all "prophesy in part." When we properly assemble these parts by the Holy Spirit's illuminating touch these fragments give insight into what would otherwise be a puzzling piece of scripture.

"For without controversy, great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, [God was] justified in the spirit, [God was] seen of angels, [God had] preached unto the Gentiles, [God was] believed on in the world, [God was] received up into glory" (I Timothy 3:16).

The reason "justified in the spirit" is in bold print is because people often overlook it. Many people simply read over that part of the text as if it were just King James jargon, put there merely as some spiritual word filler. It's not. It's a very important confirmation of a little known and taught part of the Christian faith.

Let's look again, "God . . . was justified in the spirit . . . " Now questions arise, "Justified of what, before who, how and why?" To answer the "before who" is easy. "God . . . was justified . . . seen of angels." To answer the other questions is not quite as simple. First we must make sure we understand exactly WHO Jesus Christ was (and is).

Despite Paul's warning to Corinth church that some would come "preaching another Jesus . . . another gospel," most people are positive they know WHO Jesus is, (II Cor. 11:14). Many have never even considered scripturally proving that their "Jesus" is the same one Paul preached. In light of Paul's warning of "another Jesus" we would do well to examine our "Jesus" in the light of the "holy scriptures" with the help of the Holy Spirit given them "to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus" (II Timothy 3:15).

Jesus was, and is, called the "son of God." However, the word "son" was not intended to infer He would be God's descendant, or offspring, such as we have offsprings. The word was merely prophetic of THE CHILD's gender which God promised would be born. From the beginning, when Adam fell into sin in the garden, God promised that a deliverer would come. A "seed" that would bruise the head of the serpent (the devil), and the serpent would "bruise HIS heel" (Genesis 3.15). A "man child" would be born.

Jesus Christ is that "seed" and "man child." A "son" that could only have been OF God, for as it was foretold, the child would be born of a virgin. While this child's conception was accomplished entirely OF God, men would still call him "son of man," (although no earthly man took part in His conception).

The phrase "Son of man" is merely a Jewish maxim which testifies of one's humanity, as it is used by God toward Ezekiel so many times. In Christ's case, it too testified of His humanity - that He in fact was "born" a man.

"Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same . . . for verily He took not on Him the nature of angels: but He took on Him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore it behoved Him to be made like unto His brethren" (Hebrews 2:14-17).

Just as Isaiah foretold, "a virgin" had conceived and brought forth a "son." They would call this child, as both Isaiah prophesied and the angel Gabriel foretold, "Immanuel . . . which being interpreted is, God-with-us" (Isaiah 7:14, Matthew 1:18-23, Luke 1:26-35).

Consider a few more scriptures;

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, (1)The Mighty God, (2)The Everlasting Father, (3)The Prince of Peace" (Isaiah 9:6).

"Ye are My witnesses," saith the Lord, "and My servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He [the child to come]. Before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord; and besides Me there is no saviour. I am the Lord, your Holy One, the Creator of Israel, your King" (Isaiah 43:10,11,15).

Compare the above verses with John 8:24, 28; 13:19; 18:5, 6.

In Jesus alone we see the above verses fulfilled. As I Timothy 3:16 says, "God was manifested in the flesh." Amazingly, in His finite, fleshly form, as a "son of man," would God's love and commitment be revealed for all to see. His incarnation would enable both men and angels witnessed His unselfish character by manner of the life and death of the man Jesus. Oh what wondrous thing is this? "God in Christ" has reconciled "the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them" (I Cor. 5:19).

Through the wisdom of His incarnation God has revealed "unto us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He hath purposed in Himself: that in the dispensation of the fullness of time He might gather together in one ALL things in Christ, both which are in heaven [angels], and which are on earth [man]; even in Him [Jesus]" (Ephesians 1:9, 10).

Now we who believe can see both "the power of God, and the wisdom of God" in Jesus Christ (I Cor. 1:18-24). Therefore, we give "thanks unto the Father . . . Who hath delivered us from the kingdom of darkness, and translated us unto the kingdom of His dear Son . . . Who is the image [manifestation] of the invisible God . . . He is before all things, and by Him all things consist. And He is the head of the body, the church: Who is The Beginning, the Firstborn From The Dead; That in all things He might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in Him [the man child] should all fulness [of The Mighty God] dwell; and having made peace through the blood of His cross, by Him to reconcile all things unto Himself; by Him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven" (see Colossians 1:12-20).

In order for Jesus to qualify as the prophetic "Christ" and accomplish all this He had to be, by necessity, simultaneously both God and Man. Were Jesus not fully God, and fully man, He could not be what He claims to be in Revelation 22:16, both "the root and offspring of David." As the "root of David" we see Jesus Christ as "The Everlasting Father" of Isaiah 9:6 . As the "offspring of David" we see Him as the "man child" or "son" promised at the fall of man. Jesus is not merely some subservient offspring of "Father God." No, He is the Father. Jesus is The Mighty God. This is what Isaiah 9:6 plainly tells us.

Perhaps the most common stumbling block concerning Jesus' deity is an apparent inability to answer the question, "How can Jesus be the Everlasting Father and still pray to the Father?"

Good question. Nevertheless, Isaiah said the "Prince of Peace" would be none other than "The Everlasting Father," or as some would assert "the Father of Eternity." Indeed it is a mystery, but just because something is a mystery does not make it impossible. A mystery is simply proof of ignorance, a lack of knowledge and understanding.

A good basic guideline for understanding Christ, the God/man, is to remember that God in His pure essence "is a spirit" (John 4:24). By Jesus' own words we know that "a spirit hath not flesh and bones" (Luke 24:29). Therefore, God in His pure essence as a spirit is not limited to a finite visible form. Being omnipresent, He is everywhere all the time, throughout time, at the same time - past, present, future. Therefore Jesus, while locked in time and space by His human flesh, through prayer communed with His Omnipresent Spirit, "the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity" (Isaiah 57:15).

Now ponder this, if you could simply go back one minute in time you could both see and be with yourself. You could even talk to yourself. Would that make you two? Certainly it would seem as if there was two. Nevertheless, in truth you are still only one. One in heart, one in mind, but in two places. It is the escape from time's hold that affords you the ability to be in two places simultaneously. You, from the future, could warn yourself of what is yet to come. This is what Jesus revealed to Nicodemus. "No man has ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of Man which is in heaven," (John 3:13). Jesus was there talking to Nicodemus, yet referring to Himself as "is in heaven." It is this unique aspect of God's Omnipresence by which He knows those who would be saved from the foundations of the world.

"Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am He" (Isaiah 41:4).

"Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like Me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel will stand, and I will do all My pleasure" (Isaiah 46:9,10).

"I have declared the former things from the beginning; and they went forth out of My mouth, and I shewed them; I did them suddenly, and they came to pass. I have even from the beginning declared it to thee: before it came to pass I shewed it thee: lest thou shouldest say, mine idol hath done them, and my graven image, and my molten image, hath commanded them" (Isaiah 48:3,5).

At Athens Paul encourage the men to "seek the Lord [Jesus], if haply they might feel after Him, and find Him, though He be not far from every one of us: for in Him we live and move and have our very being . . . " (Acts 17:27,28). Again in Psalm 139 David reasons with God saying, "Whither shall I go from Thy Spirit? Or whither shall I flee from Thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, Thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, Thou art there. If I take the wings of morning, and dwell In the uttermost parts of the sea: even there shall Your hand lead me and Your right hand hold me" (Verses 7-10).

"Am I a God at hand, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off? Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD" (Jeremiah 23:24).

Thus we can see the omnipresence of the "eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God."

We see in Romans how great a relationship one can have "IN" Christ."There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are IN Christ Jesus." This "IN Christ Jesus" is different from the "in"we see spoken to the men of Athens, "IN Him we live and move and have our very being." This "IN" is much more. It is more than just some hyper-spiritual concept concerning the "Christian position." This "IN" is a state of intimate communion one may have with Christ. However, this is only possible after one has made a conscious resolve to "walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" (Romans 8:1, see I John 1:3,7).

This "Spirit" one must walk after? Who is it?

It is the "Spirit of Christ" of course. Is it not Him we want to be "IN" and be intimate with? See Romans 8:9, "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the SPIRIT, if so be that the SPIRIT OF GOD dwell in you. Now if any man have not the SPIRIT OF CHRIST, he is none of His." Furthermore this "Spirit of Christ" is the Holy Spirit. A mistake many make is they perceive the phrase "Holy Spirit" to be a proper name. It's not. It's a precise definition of God. He's holy and in essence He's a spirit. Therefore He alone deserves to be called the "Holy Spirit."

Let's look at a few more scriptures.

God, who at sundry times and in divers manner spake in times past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son . . . the brightness of His glory, and the express image of His person" (Hebrew 1:1-3).

Note the words in bold type, "God, spake, by the prophets, by His Son." Let's continue.

"For the prophesy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost" (II Peter 1:21).

Here we see "God" who "spake, by the prophets" in Hebrews 1:1&2 is here speaking by "holy men of God as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." Same God, same prophets, same Spirit.

Again, let's continue;

". . . Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of grace that should come unto you: searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify . . . which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into" (I Peter 1:11,12).

The " prophets" through which "God . . . spake" as they "were moved by the Holy Ghost" spake what "the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify." Peter continues to say that the preaching of this good news continues to come by the unction of the "Holy Ghost sent down from heaven,"

"Now the Lord [Jesus] is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is liberty" (II Corinthians 3:17).

In light of all this, I hope all could and would agree that when the Bible speaks of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ that it is the same Spirit. If so, then when Paul states that God was "justified in the Spirit," we should understand, it was the Holy Spirit of the "eternal, immortal, invisible, the ONLY wise God" Almighty that was "manifested in the flesh" of Jesus, (I Timothy 1:17; 3:16).

See this thread The Invisible Man for a interesting little story.

"Who has ascended up into heaven, or descended? Who hath gather the wind in his fist? Who hath bound the waters in a garment? Who hath established all the ends of the earth? What is his name? And what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?" (Proverbs 30:4).

The above verse is a riddle that men have long sought to answer. In their search for the answer, neither men's own imagination, nor their adversary has failed to provide a variety of explanations to select from. However, we cannot afford to be wrong in our selection. We must be certain we "know in Whom" we believe (II Timothy 1:12). Fortunately, He Who has placed the question is also willing to answer it.

Having been warned as Christians, we should "believe not every spirit [be it of man or angel]," but we are to "try the spirits whether they are of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world." Here's how we know those that are of God, "Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: and every spirit that confesses not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world" (I John 4:1-4).

Now take a moment and consider the lasting effect of Jesus upon humanity. Now really, who but an ignorant fool would deny that a man named "Jesus" ever existed. Even historians who do not subscribe to the beliefs of Christianity readily acknowledge Jesus' existence. Even many religions which oppose the Christian faith acknowledge the historical man named Jesus. A person with any intellect must, due to the over whelming evidence, must acknowledge that not only did such a man "come in the flesh," but that He died in the flesh as well! Nevertheless, these two truths are not what the Apostle John was talking about.

The spirit of antichrist is not "anti-Jesus came in the flesh." NOR is it "anti-Jesus the subservient offspring of God come in the flesh." Amazingly, neither is the spirit of antichrist "anti- god." Quite the contrary, the Bible tells us this spirit of antichrist is really, to many people's surprise, "pro-god." It just is not "pro the true living God," instead it is "pro the existence of a god."

See the Bible says that "that man of sin" will exalt himself "so that he AS GOD sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God" (II Thessalonians 2:2,4). Yet this he could not do IF people truly knew that Jesus Christ alone is God. Therefore, the spirit of antichrist is ANTI-TRUTH, or "Anti-Jesus/The Almighty God come in the flesh."

Jesus said, "Take heed that no man deceive you. For many will come in My name, saying I am the Christ; and shall deceive many" (Matthew 24:4,5). These are men who will acknowledge both the life and death of Jesus, and openly admit that He was the foretold and promised deliverer that would come, the Christ. Yet their definition of the "Christ" is different from that of God's.

Countless so-called Christian leaders nowadays deny the reality Jesus Christ was "The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father" come in the flesh (Isaiah 9:6). They readily admit He is the "Prince of Peace" of Isaiah 9:6, but not the Everlasting Father.

"This is a deceiver and an antichrist. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of christ hath not god. He that abideth in the doctrine if Christ, He hath BOTH the [Everlasting] Father and the Son" (II John 7, 9).

Notice that the word "doctrine" in II John 9 is singular. John was not referring to the many doctrines or teachings given by Jesus. John was referring to that one singular doctrine which is the foundation of true Christianity. It is the teaching concerning "who Jesus is." The Bible calls this teaching the "Doctrine of Christ." God will not permit this doctrine to be changed. To do so will certainly have severe eternal consequences. Believe me. The Apostle warns us that "if any come unto you, and bring not THIS doctrine [but a different teaching of Whom Christ is], receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: for he that biddeth him God speed is a partaker of his evil deeds" (II John 10, 11).

"Who is a liar but he that denieth Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son [are the selfsame]. Whosoever denieth the [isaiah 9:6] Son, the same hath not the [isaiah 9:6 Everlasting] Father: But He that acknowledgeth the Son hath the [Everlasting] Father also" (I John 2:22,23). WHY? Because "They" are the same person. THIS TRUTH IS HID to them that are lost. The god of this world HAS blinded their minds, "lest the glorious light of the gospel of Christ, Who is the image of God, should shine unto them" (II Corinthians 4:3,4).

GOD WAS JUSTIFIED? -- OF WHAT?

It is my prayer that we could all now agree concerning this "Doctrine of Christ." For it is the "rock" upon which the true church must be founded. To be ignorant of this truth, or disbelieving, is to be blinded to the true light of the glory of God (II Corinthians 4:36).

Perhaps now is a good time to consider just what the word "justified" means. In I Timothy 3:16 the Greek word translated "Justified" is "dikaioo," which comes from the root word "dikaios."

Let's look at their definitions;

Dikaios - equitable (in character or act); by implication, innocent, holy (absolutely or relatively): just, meet, right (eous).

Dikaioo - to render (i.e. show or regard as) just or innocent.

Webster tells us to be justified is to be shown just, right, and to have functioned in accord with good reason. To be freed from blame; declared guiltless; acquitted; absolved. By these definitions we could easily say, "to be justified is to be vindicated of false accusation by the revealed, proven and witnessed (seen) facts."

So then, what was the accusation? By whom? The first recorded accusation in the Bible was against God. What happened? Well, there Eve was one day when the serpent asked her, "Has God said you should not eat of every tree in the garden?" Eve's reply was, "We may eat the fruit of every tree in the garden; except the tree in the middle of the garden, God said, you shall not eat of it, neither shall you touch it, lest you die." And the serpent said unto Eve, "You shall not surely die: for God knows that in the day you eat it your eyes shall be open, ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil" (Genesis 3:1-24).

Here we see the devil, via the serpent, claiming God to be a liar, saying, "You shall not surely die." Satan then implies that selfishness is the reason God does not want Adam and Eve to eat of the tree. Satan concludes that God doesn't want any other gods around, "God knows . . . ye shall be as gods" (Genesis 3:5).

Satan basically accused God of being a lover of self, and if selfish, than God must be a sinner as well. It was this manner of sin that provoked God to not spare "the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgement" (II Peter 2:4). For this manner of sin there can be no forgiveness. "Whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come" (Matthew 10:25).

We know Satan's accusations are false and by them we can see both his jealousy and hatred toward God. Interestingly, scriptures show that the incident in the garden was not the first time Satan accused God of greedily hoarding the throne. This we'll see as we look at the devil's beginning.

THE DEVIL'S BEGINNING

The Apostle John said, "The devil sinneth from the beginning" (I John 3:8). The beginning of what? From the beginning of his negative conversion. What does that mean? Well, let's look at those texts of scripture the Bible offers us for insight into his former state.

"Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God . . . Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God: thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in all thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity wast found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise [covetousness] they have filled the midst if thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, 0 covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings that they may behold thee" (Ezekiel 28:13-17).

"How thou art fallen from heaven, 0 Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which did weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thy heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the Most High. Yet thou shall be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit" (Isaiah 14:12-15).

Now some have rejected the idea that these two passages have anything to do with the devil. They say Ezekiel was specifically speaking of, and to, the king of Tyrus, and only the king of Tyrus. However the king of Tyrus was never "in Eden the garden of God," nor was he ever an "anointed cherub." Certainly, the king of Tyrus was born and not "created."

Some regard Isaiah's prophesy as merely a prophesy against the king of Babylon. Yet Isaiah, as did Ezekiel, spoke by the same Holy Spirit for our benefit (I Corinthians 14:3-5). These two prophesies focused upon these two earthy kings upon because they, like Satan, exalted themselves beyond their realm. While these prophesies focused upon these kings personal sins, Satan's sin was the true focal point of the word.

Yes, Ezekiel and Isaiah both, by inspiration of the Holy Spirit, recorded the fall of the anointed cherub that we might have insight into the beginning of all sin -- SELF-esteem. This is why Paul told Timothy not to place a novice, one young in the faith, into a position of leadership, "Lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil" (I Timothy 3:6).

Not that the devil would not condemn the novice, God alone is the one who condemns sinners. Rather, just as Satan was condemned for his pride, so would be the novice. For from the beginning "pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall" (Proverbs 16:18).

Both the king of Tyrus and the king of Babylon had displayed attributes which originated in Satan, the ultimate chief of sinners. As it happened with Satan, their positions and wealth seduced them too. God had permitted them positions of honor and therefore they thought they were something special, when in reality they were nothing. The deceitfulness of sin caught them. Their positions and power came not of themselves. God gave it to them. Therefore their posture should have been one of humility and thankfulness, not pride.

Look at Ezekiel's and Isaiah's account of the devil's heart. "Thine heart was lifted up because of thine beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness" (Ezekiel 28:17). "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend unto heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will also sit upon the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the clouds: I will be like the Most High" (Isaiah 14:13,14).

Here we can see the progression of SELF-esteem. First, it caused Satan to separate himself from the rest of God's angelic beings saying, "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God." The "stars" are symbolic of angels, see Revelation 12:4,7. Not being satisfied with being above his peers he says, "I will be like the Most High." Mesmerized by his own beauty, Satan felt he was entitled to the same admiration and praise as God, the Creator of that beauty. God is worthy of more glory "inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honor than the house" (Hebrews 3:3).

Self-esteem will always lead to the same end, humiliation and destruction. Sure, like many sins in their early stages, it can make one feel good, but only temporarily. Therefore, because of his SELF-esteem, Satan had corrupted his wisdom and forfeited both his position with God and his beauty. Any beauty he now has is only an illusion. Satan had sought to honor himself instead of his Creator and was therefore condemned, (Romans 1:25).

"I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thy iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire in the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be anymore" (Ezekiel 28:17-19).

"Yet shalt thou be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, is this the man [devil] that did shake kingdoms; that made all the world a wilderness, and destroyeth the cities thereof; that openeth not the house of his prisoners" (Isaiah 14:15-17).

DEVILS IN HEAVEN

In these verses God had obviously not only judged (made an accurate assessment of) Satan's heart, but condemned (sentenced) him as well. Therefore, the questions arise -

[charlesj]

Who is Jesus? That is the question I have been looking in to the past few days. My salvation and the salvation of every single person on this planet rest on this very matter. It is our faith in Christ and who he is and that he died for our sins and was resurrected that is the back bone of our faith.

Yet answering this question is not a simple as one might think. This brings me to the reason for this post. I came across two articles if you will that both go in to this very subject of who Christ is. Both of these articles are very well written and thought out, they are also backed up by scripture which only further complicate this subject matter.

The first article was written by Blindseeker who posted this on the worthy boards and was kind enough to point me to it. In his article (which I will post) he says that Christ was God made flesh. He very elegantly backs this up with scripture. After reading his article one can

[mikerunk]

This article is by Pastor Martian Eldon Bledsoe

INTRODUCTION

[mikerunk]

Conclusion

Both articles were very well written and are backed up by scripture, and thus leaves one wondering just who was Jesus. At the end of the day I believe that Pastor Martian Eldon Blodsoe article because it makes more sense. One biggest holes in Blindseeker article is that when Christ say says his Father (God) but if Christ is God then that would make him the Father, no matter how you spin it. We see examples were Christ is praying to the father again that would be praying to him self, and though Blindseeker does a very good job of explain this I think its more less splitting hairs.

However this is a very much debated subject even among Christians. The very back bone the Christian faith rest squarely on who Christ is. We know that Christ was no mere man that much can be certain. We also know that Christ died on the cross for our sins. However understanding exactly what Christ one is a very complicated matter, as both of these articles show. Both have there merits and were backed up by scripture. If two people of faith have conflicting opinions on who Christ was then how do we find the truth. If the truth is only granted to use by God then how do we explain two people of faith believe so differently on who Christ was. Further more how do those of use who are trying to find these answers find the correct one.

I do not question the existence of God, nor do I doubt that Christ died on the cross for our sins. However understanding who Christ is a key element to developing ones faith in Christ and in God. One could even say my very soul is at stake on this subject, because it leaves me asking which answer is right. As I said I do believe in God (I have seen first hand just how wonderful he is, and his hand at work in my life) and I believe Christ is our lord and savior, beyond that I am still in search of answer and not just any old answer will do. I want the right answers.

[georgedrw81]

God and Jesus loves us and blesses us every moment therefore there is no need to look for additional answers.

Blessings

[CBE1]

Who was Jesus? is the thread, but the first question asked on the thread was, Who is Jesus? Which is a much easier question to answer.

Who was Jesus: means answering all the things He did. Who is Jesus: means telling about Him in my life, and while He has done so very much in my life, He is the one that comes in the name of the Lord. He is the One that talks to me through His spirit that is within me.

He is the One that I hear tell me He loves me, usually a number of times each day.

He is the One who teaches me; usually with parables [Ps: 78] and little sayings like: "IT

Edited January 23, 2010 by CBE1

[buddyboy]

Good question I sometime ask myself the same question, but even Jesus asked his disciples who do people say I am. Jesus is the way the truth and the light of salvation. we don't have to look far to see who Jesus is just look around you he's our neighbor the sick the poor the hopeless. Jesus need us to share the gospel of truth to the world.

knowing him is one thing but following behind him is another. Let us pray that we not only know him, but follow behind him and lead men to him so that they may find salvation through him. God sent his son so that we would be reconcile back to him as holy. When I read the bible it shows the character of God. Jesus came to save not to destroy. Jesus lived a life that God wants all his children to live. he set goals that we could achieve through faith in him. Jesus you came into the world and left it just as you said you would and you will return looking for faith upon your return. Father open our eyes so we can understand your purpose in our lives.

[Hunterpoet]

You stated that the salvation of the world and all in it rest on who Jesus is.

The 2 choices you present are God in the flesh or Son of God.

What happens if someone cannot decide?

What happens if someone should make the incorrect choice?

Does this cause his or her salvation to become invalid?

And for those who have yet to make the choice, does choosing wrongly, create an exercise in futility?

Paul, an Apostle of Jesus Christ, says in Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

What does this mean, to confess with thy mouth. It means to acknowledge that Christ Jesus was here( on earth), sent from heaven, was made the perfect and final sacrifice, raised from the dead and is Lord and Savior over all.

I cannot find anywhere in scripture that demands we choose between Son of God and God in the Flesh to be saved, as you have suggested.

If there is a scripture that demands this , please enlighten me.

[mikerunk]

You stated that the salvation of the world and all in it rest on who Jesus is.

The 2 choices you present are God in the flesh or Son of God.

What happens if someone cannot decide?

What happens if someone should make the incorrect choice?

Does this cause his or her salvation to become invalid?

And for those who have yet to make the choice, does choosing wrongly, create an exercise in futility?

Paul, an Apostle of Jesus Christ, says in Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

What does this mean, to confess with thy mouth. It means to acknowledge that Christ Jesus was here( on earth), sent from heaven, was made the perfect and final sacrifice, raised from the dead and is Lord and Savior over all.

I cannot find anywhere in scripture that demands we choose between Son of God and God in the Flesh to be saved, as you have suggested.

If there is a scripture that demands this , please enlighten me.

All right first I in truth have no idea how knowing whether Christ is God in the flesh or the Son of God would effect our salvation. However to me it stands to reason that knowing who Christ is would be a big step towards finding salvation. While I will flat out admit that Christ was no mere man that he goes way beyond that, whether or not he is in fact God made flesh or if he was The Son of God I know he is one or the other.

However I do believe it is important to know which is true because they both can't be true. However but how does one come to finding out which is true and which is not. Only one of these can be true and the other is a false teaching, if one is a false teaching then it means people are falling a false teaching. I want to make sure I'm not following something that is a false teaching. In short one is correct and the other is incorrect and that is the part I'm hung up on and can not figure out which is true and which is not.

Understand this is not an attack but me trying to find answers or to get people on both sides of table who believe one or the other to post there belief and back them up with scripture in the hope that I might find that truth.