Listening to the Holy Spirit

[CBE1]

Doing a word study on Revelation 21:8, I have discovered the following.

"Fearful", or "cowardly", are said to be Christians who cower under persecution, that may become apostatized.

"And" is not used to describe one person, but different people, each having their own weakness.

Rev 21:8 [NASB] Bot for the cowardly and unbelieving and adominalbe and murderers and immoralpersons and sorcerers and idolaters and liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimsotne, which is the second death.

Certainly that verse does not sound like Christians in any sense of the word. Chrisians are supposed to be believers, and I don't know of any Christians that practice sorcery. Perhaps idolaters, and maybe even some liars might call themselves Christians, but I am not seeing the connection between this verse you quoted and the conclusion that they are Christians who cower under persecution. Could you elabotate?

[OneLight]

Doing a word study on Revelation 21:8, I have discovered the following.

"Fearful", or "cowardly", are said to be Christians who cower under persecution, that may become apostatized.

"And" is not used to describe one person, but different people, each having their own weakness.

Rev 21:8 [NASB] Bot for the cowardly and unbelieving and adominalbe and murderers and immoralpersons and sorcerers and idolaters and liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimsotne, which is the second death.

Certainly that verse does not sound like Christians in any sense of the word. Chrisians are supposed to be believers, and I don't know of any Christians that practice sorcery. Perhaps idolaters, and maybe even some liars might call themselves Christians, but I am not seeing the connection between this verse you quoted and the conclusion that they are Christians who cower under persecution. Could you elabotate?

This verse is not saying that they have to have all these personal traits, but is listing each individually.

As I said, I did a word study about the meaning of fearful or cowardly. I did not believe that a Christian would be included in this verse, but for some reason, it is implied that they are. Consider the word fearful and cowardly. What do you think He was saying they are? Could they be those who are too afraid, or ashamed of their belief in God, to preach His word and to stand for Him in the times of persecution?

Look at what Christ said about this.

Mark 8:38

For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.

[CBE1]

Doing a word study on Revelation 21:8, I have discovered the following.

"Fearful", or "cowardly", are said to be Christians who cower under persecution, that may become apostatized.

"And" is not used to describe one person, but different people, each having their own weakness.

Rev 21:8 [NASB] Bot for the cowardly and unbelieving and adominalbe and murderers and immoralpersons and sorcerers and idolaters and liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimsotne, which is the second death.

Certainly that verse does not sound like Christians in any sense of the word. Chrisians are supposed to be believers, and I don't know of any Christians that practice sorcery. Perhaps idolaters, and maybe even some liars might call themselves Christians, but I am not seeing the connection between this verse you quoted and the conclusion that they are Christians who cower under persecution. Could you elabotate?

This verse is not saying that they have to have all these personal traits, but is listing each individually.

As I said, I did a word study about the meaning of fearful or cowardly. I did not believe that a Christian would be included in this verse, but for some reason, it is implied that they are. Consider the word fearful and cowardly. What do you think He was saying they are? Could they be those who are too afraid, or ashamed of their belief in God, to preach His word and to stand for Him in the times of persecution?

Look at what Christ said about this.

Mark 8:38

For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.

[OneLight]

Doing a word study on Revelation 21:8, I have discovered the following.

"Fearful", or "cowardly", are said to be Christians who cower under persecution, that may become apostatized.

"And" is not used to describe one person, but different people, each having their own weakness.

Rev 21:8 [NASB] Bot for the cowardly and unbelieving and adominalbe and murderers and immoralpersons and sorcerers and idolaters and liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimsotne, which is the second death.

Certainly that verse does not sound like Christians in any sense of the word. Chrisians are supposed to be believers, and I don't know of any Christians that practice sorcery. Perhaps idolaters, and maybe even some liars might call themselves Christians, but I am not seeing the connection between this verse you quoted and the conclusion that they are Christians who cower under persecution. Could you elabotate?

This verse is not saying that they have to have all these personal traits, but is listing each individually.

As I said, I did a word study about the meaning of fearful or cowardly. I did not believe that a Christian would be included in this verse, but for some reason, it is implied that they are. Consider the word fearful and cowardly. What do you think He was saying they are? Could they be those who are too afraid, or ashamed of their belief in God, to preach His word and to stand for Him in the times of persecution?

Look at what Christ said about this.

Mark 8:38

For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.”

Luke 9:26

For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father’s, and of the holy angels.

Abraham was the friend for God, yet Lot was still considered rightoues and was recued from the sinful generation.

Now Abraham was considered righteous because he heard the voice of the Lord when the word of the Lord appeared to him in a vision. [Gen 15] That was what was counted to him as righteousness. And it is written that faith comes by hearing [Rm 10] And Lot was rescued because he was found to be righteous.

We are righteous, according to the Scriptures if we hear the words of God spoken to us and believe. The Pharisees did not hear the words of God spoken to them like that, but they did study and quote the Scriptures. Jesus explained to them that their father the devil was a liar from the begining, and also a murderer. Indeed, it seems that their father the devil has virtually all of those charactoristics mentioned above.

It seems to me that Lot was "in this adulterous and sinful generation" but not of it. [lk 9:26] It seems to me that the Lord must have been ashamed of the way Lot acted, but still he was saved and counted righteous. It seems to me that their are Christians today hanging out with the sons of the devil, and they do hear the Lord talking to them but are afraid to mention it because they are ashamed of words they hear from the Lord.

There are Abrahams today, that hear the words of the Lord and follow the words of the Lord and are friends of the Word of the Lord. And there are Lots that hear the words of the Lord but are embarrased about the words of the Lord, so don't mention what He tells them, and they don't follow Him our Lord, and because of this the whole Kingdom of God is ashamed of them. Still we are righteous considered righteous, not because we do everything right, but because hearing and believing the Lord is counted to us as righteousness.

My friend; we are righteious because of His forgiveness not because we are perfect. We are righteous and save from the fire because we believe. That is we have faith in the one who is called the Word of God.

The devil had all those charactoristics and so how would his sons not?

The Lord does not have those charactoristics, so listening to your Father in heaven will pull you out of the things of this world, but if you are ashamed of what He says, you will tend to wonder off. So He is ashamed of you, and has to send his angels to pull you out in the day he brings judgment.

It is not Christians in the true since of the word [those that hear His words and believe] that he is throwing into the lake of fire, but those that do not listen to His words and do not believe. Those are the sons of the devil, and they take on all the charactoristics of their father the devil to some extent or another.

So Lot was considered righteous, and Lot was saved, but Lot did hang out in the wrong places. How embarrassing?

Those of the OT times did not have the Holy Spirit as we do today, so one could not compare those of the OT with us in the NT. You mention that the Lord must of been ashamed of Lot. Can you give the scripture that you are referring to?

[Permie]

Doing a word study on Revelation 21:8, I have discovered the following.

"Fearful", or "cowardly", are said to be Christians who cower under persecution, that may become apostatized.

"And" is not used to describe one person, but different people, each having their own weakness.

Thank you, OneLight, for showing that the fearful are Christians.

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 21:8

I still maintain that "perfected love" casts out all fear. 1 John 4:18

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

16And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

17Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

Edited January 29, 2010 by Permie

[OneLight]

Doing a word study on Revelation 21:8, I have discovered the following.

"Fearful", or "cowardly", are said to be Christians who cower under persecution, that may become apostatized.

"And" is not used to describe one person, but different people, each having their own weakness.

Thank you, OneLight, for showing that the fearful are Christians.

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 21:8

I still maintain that "perfected love" casts out all fear. 1 John 4:18

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

16And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

17Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

Even though what you have posted is scripture, we must also realize that nobody is in perfect love while being here in this life. We still battle with all that is against God, including our own nature. Scripture tells us that we know in part until that which is perfect comes. To me, that which is perfect is the finished work of Christ in us, and this work will not be finished until we are with Him.

1 Corinthians 13

The Greatest Gift

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

[Permie]

Doing a word study on Revelation 21:8, I have discovered the following.

"Fearful", or "cowardly", are said to be Christians who cower under persecution, that may become apostatized.

"And" is not used to describe one person, but different people, each having their own weakness.

Thank you, OneLight, for showing that the fearful are Christians.

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 21:8

I still maintain that "perfected love" casts out all fear. 1 John 4:18

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

16And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

17Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

Even though what you have posted is scripture, we must also realize that nobody is in perfect love while being here in this life. We still battle with all that is against God, including our own nature. Scripture tells us that we know in part until that which is perfect comes. To me, that which is perfect is the finished work of Christ in us, and this work will not be finished until we are with Him.

1 Corinthians 13

The Greatest Gift

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

The Lord's word is true. Yet, there is so much that we as individuals must reconcile.

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. Hebrews 9:28

While you will probably look up the above verse in context, do also think of this verse while doing so:

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Romans 6:3

Do read down to at least verse 7 of Romans, and recall also that the bible says that the soul that sins dies.

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. Ezekiel 18:4

With the love of Christ,

Permie

Sorry for the small font.

[OneLight]

Doing a word study on Revelation 21:8, I have discovered the following.

"Fearful", or "cowardly", are said to be Christians who cower under persecution, that may become apostatized.

"And" is not used to describe one person, but different people, each having their own weakness.

Thank you, OneLight, for showing that the fearful are Christians.

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 21:8

I still maintain that "perfected love" casts out all fear. 1 John 4:18

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

16And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

17Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

Even though what you have posted is scripture, we must also realize that nobody is in perfect love while being here in this life. We still battle with all that is against God, including our own nature. Scripture tells us that we know in part until that which is perfect comes. To me, that which is perfect is the finished work of Christ in us, and this work will not be finished until we are with Him.

1 Corinthians 13

The Greatest Gift

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

The Lord's word is true. Yet, there is so much that we as individuals must reconcile.

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. Hebrews 9:28

While you will probably look up the above verse in context, do also think of this verse while doing so:

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Romans 6:3

Do read down to at least verse 7 of Romans, and recall also that the bible says that the soul that sins dies.

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. Ezekiel 18:4

With the love of Christ,

Permie

Sorry for the small font.

.... to be honest, I cannot follow your train of thought. How does this tie into what you quoted or listening to the Holy Spirit?

I only use larger fonts because you stated that you have a hard time reading normal fonts. I have no trouble with normal fonts at all ... no apology needed.

[Guest LadyC]

permie, it sounds like you're talking about sinless perfection. is that what you're trying to get at? we can not ever be perfected until we are with the Lord.

if you have trouble reading small fonts, your browser will let you increase the size of the font you are reading, and will keep the larger font size no matter what page you are on, as long as it's in the same tab. it's under "view" on your browser toolbar.

[CBE1]

Doing a word study on Revelation 21:8, I have discovered the following.

"Fearful", or "cowardly", are said to be Christians who cower under persecution, that may become apostatized.

"And" is not used to describe one person, but different people, each having their own weakness.

Rev 21:8 [NASB] Bot for the cowardly and unbelieving and adominalbe and murderers and immoralpersons and sorcerers and idolaters and liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimsotne, which is the second death.

Certainly that verse does not sound like Christians in any sense of the word. Chrisians are supposed to be believers, and I don't know of any Christians that practice sorcery. Perhaps idolaters, and maybe even some liars might call themselves Christians, but I am not seeing the connection between this verse you quoted and the conclusion that they are Christians who cower under persecution. Could you elabotate?

This verse is not saying that they have to have all these personal traits, but is listing each individually.

As I said, I did a word study about the meaning of fearful or cowardly. I did not believe that a Christian would be included in this verse, but for some reason, it is implied that they are. Consider the word fearful and cowardly. What do you think He was saying they are? Could they be those who are too afraid, or ashamed of their belief in God, to preach His word and to stand for Him in the times of persecution?

Look at what Christ said about this.

Mark 8:38

For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.