Evolutionists: Why is it so important to you?

[Fez]

It is not so much that I don't care, as I see it as just a fact of life and so accept it. A person who has always had sight, who suddenly becomes blind is probably going to spend a lot of time worrying themselves about it, but a person blind from birth likely just accepts the reality of it and doesn't let the condition worry him.

This is an apt description of an atheist. Whether the 'birth' of denial of God is the actual beginning of life, or some point down the road, you are indeed very much like a blind person. I will pray for you to have your eyes opened, Marsh.

Yep and both of them miss a great part of the glory that God created. And of course people blind from birth wish they could see. I spent years without "seeing", now my life is filled with a light I never knew existed before being saved.

[nebula]

It is also an apt description of the deeply religious individual who in thinking their purpose comes from God builds themselves an understanding of their existence based upon that belief. They then imagine that their lives without that purpose would be meaningless.

Is this what you think of us? Wow, it sounds like neither of us truly understand each other.

This gives the religious a false perception that the non-believer too must be trying to derive purpose from something in their lives to escape the meaninglessness in their existence that must come from not having a belief in God.

Nebula, demonstrated this notion in trying to determine what it was about evolution that gave it such meaning for me.

Because I can't relate to not having the need for purpose.

In his book Godless Dan Barker writes:

"If there is no hope of eternal life, then what is the purpose of life?" is a question we atheists often hear. My response is that there is indeed no purpose of life. There is purpose in life....

There is no purose of life. Life is its own reward.

What is the purpose in life?

Tell that to mother who just lost her child, or the children who were recently orphaned in the earthquake, or the teen living on the streets having run away from an abusive home, or someone like me who has suffered clinical depression (and suicidal depression) since very early in life.

What is this purpose in life you speak of?

But as long as there are problems to solve, there will be purpose in life. When there is hunger to lessen, illness to cure, pain to minimize, inequality to eradicate, oppression to resist, knowledge to gain and beauty to create, there is meaning in life. A college student once asked Carl Sagan: "What meaning is left, if everything I've been taught since I was a child turns out to be untrue?" Carl looked at him and said, "Do something meaningful."

Then why do many altruistic people suffer with depression?

[nebula]

I believe evolution is truth, but at every turn Creationists are either trying to block the teaching of it or include the Genesis account as an alternative. I am afraid of science education being shut down anytime it is not in agreement with Genesis.

We're afraid of our religious rights being taken from us, and you are afraid of science education being taken away from you.

Interesting.

And this is something I don't understand . . . not caring about meaning, purpose, etc.

It is not so much that I don't care, as I see it as just a fact of life and so accept it. A person who has always had sight, who suddenly becomes blind is probably going to spend a lot of time worrying themselves about it, but a person blind from birth likely just accepts the reality of it and doesn't let the condition worry him.

And a person who was blind but no can see has a desire to lead other blind people to sight.

I don't see how saying an ancestor survived long enough to reproduce is a claim that evolution saved your life.

I didn't mean that. If my ape ancestor had been eaten 25 mya, before reproducing, then the whole lineage that led to me would never have existed.

But evolution is based on populations, not individuals.

Mutations in humans leading to lactose toleration have occurred several times in different populations, by different paths; but is that the case for necessary mutations that made us human? Did those mutations arise more than once, or did they occur only in one individual and get passsed on? I don't know, but if a critical mutation occurred only once, and that individual had not reproduced, would there be humans today? In any case, if any of my ancestors 25 mya had failed to reproduce my entire lineage would not exist.

25 mya would have wiped out pre-humans!

Did you know scientists have determined a bottleneck in the Homo sapien species 70,000 years ago?

But any event, my original point was that there are times in my life where I could have died, yet Jesus intervened to keep me alive.

[MorningGlory]

It is also an apt description of the deeply religious individual who in thinking their purpose comes from God builds themselves an understanding of their existence based upon that belief. They then imagine that their lives without that purpose would be meaningless.

We don't imagine this; a lot of us know the feeling of being lost.

This gives the religious a false perception that the non-believer too must be trying to derive purpose from something in their lives to escape the meaninglessness in their existence that must come from not having a belief in God.

Yes, most believers do think that; in fact, we KNOW that nonbelievers are lost in darkness. But blind people can't see, they don't know they are wandering toward the cliff's edge.

In his book Godless Dan Barker writes: If there is no hope of eternal life, then what is the purpose of life?" is a question we atheists often hear. My response is that there is indeed no purpose of life. There is purpose in life

If there is no purpose in you being here, your accomplishments are meaningless as well.

There is no purose of life. Life is its own reward.

Who gave you that life? According to you, you are a blip on the screen of infinity....totally insignifcant. What kind of reward is that?

[MorningGlory]

It is not so much that I don't care, as I see it as just a fact of life and so accept it. A person who has always had sight, who suddenly becomes blind is probably going to spend a lot of time worrying themselves about it, but a person blind from birth likely just accepts the reality of it and doesn't let the condition worry him.

This is an apt description of an atheist. Whether the 'birth' of denial of God is the actual beginning of life, or some point down the road, you are indeed very much like a blind person. I will pray for you to have your eyes opened, Marsh.

Yep and both of them miss a great part of the glory that God created. And of course people blind from birth wish they could see. I spent years without "seeing", now my life is filled with a light I never knew existed before being saved.

[chapmanryan]

Why is evolution so important?

Simply because it is true.

Read Karl Giberson on it.

[/quotePlease dont take any offence to this but how can you be a christian and believe that evolution is in any way shape or form TRUE.

[Hal P]

how can you be a christian and believe that evolution is in any way shape or form TRUE.

Well that link was to an article by Karl Giberson. He has a book entitled 'Saving Darwin', the subtitle of which is 'How to Be a Christian and Believe in Evolution'. Seems like a good place to start. If you don't want to spend money, read his articles at Biologos or search for his talk on youtube - it's called 'Wrestling with Darwin'.

[nebula]

It is also an apt description of the deeply religious individual who in thinking their purpose comes from God builds themselves an understanding of their existence based upon that belief. They then imagine that their lives without that purpose would be meaningless.

Is this what you think of us? Wow, it sounds like neither of us truly understand each other.

Am I wrong in thinking that you believe life is meaningless without God? I thought that is what you were telling me. That in turn the lives of non-believers must be empty without God. I thought that is what you were saying. Have I gotten your meaning all wrong?

It's a mater of the perspective. Let me try to explain it this way.

My father used to be a scuba diver. Around here (Maryland), the only diving places are the Chesapeake Bay, the Potomac River, quarries, and the Atlantic Ocean. One time, my dad was able to go on a diving trip to I think it was the Bahamas. After that trip, diving up and around here was just never the same for him. After being in the Bahamas, what diving had to offer up here was pretty bland.

That's what it is like for us. Life without the Lord is like diving in the Potomac River. Life with the Lord is like diving in the Bahamas. What we thought was great before no longer seems so great.

Excactly. You thought the reason myself and other promoters of evolution were taking it so seriously was because it must have some deeper meaning for us, that it was somehow providing purpose, and you were trying to flesh out that purpose -- to understand it. That was why you weren't satisfied with my responses even after I tried to explain my interest in the theory. You kept pressing because you thought there must be something more, but there isn't. Evolution holds a strong interest for me but I wouldn't attach any deep meaning to it.

So why do I defend evolution vigorously? That is what puzzled you. I think it is the best explanation there is for the panorama of past and present life on Earth. I no longer view the Creation story as a credible explanation and it seems so obvious to me, that this is so, I find it difficult to understand why everyone doesn't see it that way.

So to you it's like arguing politics? (Relatively speaking?)

[MorningGlory]

I once believed in God. I don't recall feeling any different after losing my belief. In his book titled, Losing My Religion, William Lobdell documents becoming a Born Again Christian and eventually an atheist. He stresses that his life as an atheist is far richer than his life as a Christian. Dan Barker makes the same assertion in his book, Godless. I don't believe Christians have a monopoly on happiness. Nor do I think that Barker and Lobdell's experience means that atheists lead richer lives than Christians. It does mean, however, that some people are happier without God and some happier with.

There is no 'Life' without God. Atheists are already dead.

[MorningGlory]

I once believed in God. I don't recall feeling any different after losing my belief. In his book titled, Losing My Religion, William Lobdell documents becoming a Born Again Christian and eventually an atheist. He stresses that his life as an atheist is far richer than his life as a Christian. Dan Barker makes the same assertion in his book, Godless. I don't believe Christians have a monopoly on happiness. Nor do I think that Barker and Lobdell's experience means that atheists lead richer lives than Christians. It does mean, however, that some people are happier without God and some happier with.

There is no 'Life' without God. Atheists are already dead.

I'd like to quote you on that, but first I'd appreciate if you could explain what you mean.

Spiritually dead. Jesus is the way, the only way, and without Him you are nothing.