Who is my "brother" in Christ?

[OneLight]

To OneLight - I see your quotes, but you fail to define what the "will of my Father" means. Is it being obedient to His Word? If so which parts do we choose to be obedient and which parts do we ignore? Can we ignore any one thing that is God's will and be His brother?

What Gods will is for me may not be His will for you, so I cannot say what His will for you is, outside of accepting Christ as your Savior. There is no one will for everyone.

will

G2307 - thelēma

θέλημα

1) what one wishes or has determined shall be done

...a) of the purpose of God to bless mankind through Christ

...b) of what God wishes to be done by us

......1) commands, precepts

2) will, choice, inclination, desire, pleasure

[eis]

OneLight, Shiloh et al,

Baptism with water is a much discussed practice in Scripture and the inescapable implication (even command) is that it is a necessary act of obedience. All one has to do is read the end of Matthew to get the command and then read the book of Acts to see the following of the command. Which one of you would stand before a crowd of many or few and tell them that baptism in water would not be necessary to be saved? If so would you be encouraging outright disobedience if you did so?

If water baptism is an outward sign of inward grace (not found in Scripture) and a witness of our saved state, then to whom was the Ethiopian eunuch witnessing on the road to Gaza (now this is a desert road).

Obedience to the gospel is very necessary. To wit,

2 Thessalonians 1:6-9

6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

NASB

How does one obey the gospel otherwise described by Paul as the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus I Cor 15:1-4)?

Baptism is the place where we receive grace because our faith has led us to obedience. Grace is God's favor and cannot be defined as "unmerited" because there is nothing that we can do to merit favor, yet we must subject ourselves to His grace on His terms, not that which we wish it to be.

[OneLight]

OneLight, Shiloh et al,

Baptism with water is a much discussed practice in Scripture and the inescapable implication (even command) is that it is a necessary act of obedience. All one has to do is read the end of Matthew to get the command and then read the book of Acts to see the following of the command. Which one of you would stand before a crowd of many or few and tell them that baptism in water would not be necessary to be saved? If so would you be encouraging outright disobedience if you did so?

If water baptism is an outward sign of inward grace (not found in Scripture) and a witness of our saved state, then to whom was the Ethiopian eunuch witnessing on the road to Gaza (now this is a desert road).

Obedience to the gospel is very necessary. To wit,

2 Thessalonians 1:6-9

6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

NASB

How does one obey the gospel otherwise described by Paul as the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus I Cor 15:1-4)?

Baptism is the place where we receive grace because our faith has led us to obedience. Grace is God's favor and cannot be defined as "unmerited" because there is nothing that we can do to merit favor, yet we must subject ourselves to His grace on His terms, not that which we wish it to be.

Which came first, your acceptance in Christ through faith or your obedience to the commands in scripture?

[eis]

Which came first, your acceptance in Christ through faith or your obedience to the commands in scripture?

Well, I accepted the teachings of Christ then believed (had faith that he could save me and that He IS the Son of God) in Him. I was saved after I was obedient in baptism, not before.

[OneLight]

Which came first, your acceptance in Christ through faith or your obedience to the commands in scripture?

Well, I accepted the teachings of Christ then believed (had faith that he could save me and that He IS the Son of God) in Him. I was saved after I was obedient in baptism, not before.

What would of happened if for some reason you died before baptism? Would you of been accepted into His presence?

Acts 2:21

And it shall come to pass that whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.

Romans 10:13

For

[eis]

Which came first, your acceptance in Christ through faith or your obedience to the commands in scripture?

Well, I accepted the teachings of Christ then believed (had faith that he could save me and that He IS the Son of God) in Him. I was saved after I was obedient in baptism, not before.

What would of happened if for some reason you died before baptism? Would you of been accepted into His presence?

Acts 2:21

And it shall come to pass that whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.

Romans 10:13

For

Edited March 23, 2010 by eis

[OneLight]

Which came first, your acceptance in Christ through faith or your obedience to the commands in scripture?

Well, I accepted the teachings of Christ then believed (had faith that he could save me and that He IS the Son of God) in Him. I was saved after I was obedient in baptism, not before.

What would of happened if for some reason you died before baptism? Would you of been accepted into His presence?

Acts 2:21

And it shall come to pass that whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.

Romans 10:13

For

[Guest shiloh357]

Baptism with water is a much discussed practice in Scripture and the inescapable implication (even command) is that it is a necessary act of obedience.

But the actual "teaching" or discussion of baptism centers around what it means and never claims it to be necessary for salvation.

All one has to do is read the end of Matthew to get the command and then read the book of Acts to see the following of the command.

Every mention of baptism is not equivalent to "teaching." Baptism is mentioned several times, but often only in narrative accounts and not in doctrinal discussion. You cannot create doctrinal teaching from narrative accounts. False teachers have done that with disastrous results.

Which one of you would stand before a crowd of many or few and tell them that baptism in water would not be necessary to be saved?

I would. I would, however, teach them that baptism is a necessary act of obedience. Obedience is an indicator of salvation.

If so would you be encouraging outright disobedience if you did so?

Teaching someone that baptism is not necessary for salvation is not the same as teaching someone not to be baptized. I would never teach that baptism is not necessary. I simply would not impose a false doctrine that makes baptism necessary for salvation.

If water baptism is an outward sign of inward grace (not found in Scripture) and a witness of our saved state, then to whom was the Ethiopian eunuch witnessing on the road to Gaza (now this is a desert road).

That is just one function baptism. Baptism is a sign of obedience before the Lord. It is not something we do to satisfy others, but it is done first and foremost as an act of obedience to the Lord's command.

Obedience to the gospel is very necessary.

No ond has said otherwise.

How does one obey the gospel otherwise described by Paul as the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus I Cor 15:1-4)?

By believing on the Lord Jesus Christ and following Him in believer's baptism.

Baptism is the place where we receive grace because our faith has led us to obedience.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that baptism is the vehicle through which we receive God's grace. God's grace is appropriated by faith and by faith alone. (Eph. 2:8,9)

Grace is God's favor and cannot be defined as "unmerited" because there is nothing that we can do to merit favor, yet we must subject ourselves to His grace on His terms, not that which we wish it to be.

God's grace is unmerited favor, and it is more than that. It is God's favor given freely to those merit His utmost contempt.

There is only one way to access God's grace and through faith in Christ and in Christ alone. Jesus alone is "The Way" to the Throne of grace.

[Guest shiloh357]

Well since you are asking about me I would say, God will decide, BUT as I understand it I would not have been saved.

Acts 22:16-17

'And now why do you delay? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.'

NASB

One thing needs to be taken into account and that is that Paul is relating a story that actually occurred in Acts chapter 9. Before Paul was baptized, he was visited by Ananias in 9:17 who immediately upon seeing Paul who was blind called him "brother Saul." How is it that Saul was considered a "brother" before he was baptized if baptism is necessary before salvation?

[eis]

So, if salvation requires baptism, then Acts 2:21 and Romans 10:13 have to be a lie, wouldn't you say?

No not a lie. It's just that it is incomplete on "calling on the name of the Lord" as belief only. I contend that it carries with it acts of obedience as in Paul's case above.