Who is my "brother" in Christ?

[eis]

If you have 6 minutes of your time I believe this guy can tell you exactly what I have been saying Twisted Scripture

Good video.

[eis]

I see several problems with exegesis here, you deny the baptism is water baptism.

No I did not. Again, you are not framing what I said correctly. What I said was that not all references to baptism are talking about water immersion.

Yes, I should have said that you appear to deny that places like Acts2:38 and the accounts of Saul, the Philippian jailer, and the baptism of Cornelius and others like them are speaking of baptism in water.

Oh and you didn't answer the question: Can one be saved if they don't repent and/or confess? I would say NO, but then I guess that would be DOING something.

[Guest shiloh357]

I see several problems with exegesis here, you deny the baptism is water baptism.

No I did not. Again, you are not framing what I said correctly. What I said was that not all references to baptism are talking about water immersion.

You declare, the first I've ever heard, that baptism doesn't mean baptism in water. That denial is grossly sloppy and fails to tie to the command for men to baptize for the remission of sins.

the problem here is with reading comprehension on your part.

One problem may be that this thread is 42 pages long and several days old. Keeping everyone and their "exegesis" straight is a little difficult.

That is not an excuse. This is not the first time you have made that accusation and I have relcarified multiple times. So basically, either you are just not paying attention, or your argument is based on misquoting and misrepresenting me.

Yes, I should have said that you appear to deny that places like Acts2:38 and the accounts of Saul, the Philippian jailer, and the baptism of Cornelius and others like them are speaking of baptism in water.

No, I have been very clear as to what pasasges I was referring to. I have, more than once, mentioned that Rom. 6:3,4, and Gal. 3:27 are the passages I was referencing as not referring to water immersion.

Oh and you didn't answer the question: Can one be saved if they don't repent and/or confess? I would say NO, but then I guess that would be DOING something.

I have answered the question each and every time you and scare bear keep asking it. I have already pointed out that repentance and confession are the fruit of faith, which precludes a person from not doing those things. Turning to Christ from sin IS repentance. These are not things on a check list you have to perform to get saved. They are the fruit of true saving faith. In fact, they are things that a true Christian will continue doing the rest of their lives.

The problem with you is that you keep trying to frame my position as one of saying that we don't have to do anything to be saved. That is not what I said. What I said that is that you don't have work to earn salvation, and that you don't have to perform well enough for God to save you. The "doing" is not about getting saved, but about doing the good works that we were created to do. Salvation allows frees us to be obedient. God's grace is the expectation of holiness, not a license to sin or a license for apathy.

Your view of salvation ultimately is that it is a reward we earn. In your book, we have to be good enough to be saved. That is the antithesis of grace.

[eis]

Your view of salvation ultimately is that it is a reward we earn. In your book, we have to be good enough to be saved. That is the antithesis of grace.

Sorry, you are wrong about my view.

[Guest shiloh357]

You just said you have to make the decision to receive the gift. That is a work on your part.

No, that is not a work. That is not a biblical definition of a "work." Works are good/bad deeds. They are actions that produce specific results. Making a decision is not a work. Acting on that decision would be.

If you don't decide to do so you can't be saved so yes, you do have a say so in your salvation, you can either accept the gift or turn it down.

Yes, but you don't contribute anything to plan of salvation. You do not play a part in engineering redemption.

You can still later in life choose to continue with the gift or turn it down. I just find irony in your statement when you say "You have nothing to add to the work of redemption. You have nothing to contribute to the plan of salvation." Yet Jesus and His apostles and you have said one needs to believe and have faith. That contributes to your salvation does it not? That's a work on your part isn't it?

No, it is not. Faith is simply the means by which salvation is procured. You contribute nothing to bring salvation into existence.

I am not saying that you alone can save yourself.

Ultimately, that is where your warped, godless theology leads. If you have to perform well enough to be saved, if your works are necessary for you to be saved, then you don't need Jesus. Jesus' blood cannot provide you with anything more than you already gained through your own strength. You are either saved by Christ, or you save your self.

I am saying that you do have to obey God's commands and if you don't you cannot be saved... Noah was not "saved" first, he still had a task to complete. If he didn't do it he would have been lost.

The problem with that is that you are incapable of doing anything good enough that God will accept. It is nothing short of presumptuous, arrogant religious vanity to assume that your sin-tainted efforts are effectual before a holy God. You are not good enough and your works are not good enough. You are nothing but a wretch and a worm before God and have nothing of worth to offer Him. You need to learn your place and realize that before God you are helpless, blind and lost and there is nothing God wants or needs from you. Nothing good dwells in you and your best works on your best day are filthy rags before God. To think that you could do something good enough that God would accept you on that basis is the height of arrogance and vanity.

Yes because of faith we are to obey the commands given to us but we are not saved simply by faith.

If you saved by anything other than faith in Christ, then Christ is of no effect to you.

It's like the story of the man drowning in the river and he prays to God to save him. A man on a boat passes by and asks the other man if he needs help and the man replies "no thanks, God will save me." After about 2 more boats the man finally drowns and when he asks "Why didn't you save me?" he is told he was sent 3 boats. That man could have been saved not only by his faith BUT he also had to get in the boat.

That story is not meant to illustrate faith and works. It is meant to illustrate the need of recognizing the hand of God in our lives.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

Acts 26:20 20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.

We ALL will be judged according to what we have done, good or bad.

here we go again with the sloppy theology. Revelation 20:12 has nothing to do with the Christian. I have already been judged and according to John 5:24, I have already passed from judgment into eternal life. I have already been judged and declared righteous. I do not have to go to the Great White Throne.

Secondly, 2 Cor. 5:10 refers to Christians being judged in terms of their reward. It is not talkingn about salvation, but how much of a reward we will receive.

Thirdly, Acts 26:20 simply shows what I have said all along: Works follow repentance. Works befitting repentance. Works and repentance are not the same thing. Works demonstrate repentance. One repents and his works should be befitting or evidentiary of that repentance. His works testify that his repentance was genuine.

[Guest shiloh357]

Your view of salvation ultimately is that it is a reward we earn. In your book, we have to be good enough to be saved. That is the antithesis of grace.

Sorry, you are wrong about my view.

No, you simply lack the courage of your convictions. You teach a works-based salvation. You do not teach a grace-based salvation.

[eis]

Your view of salvation ultimately is that it is a reward we earn. In your book, we have to be good enough to be saved. That is the antithesis of grace.

Sorry, you are wrong about my view.

No, you simply lack the courage of your convictions. You teach a works-based salvation. You do not teach a grace-based salvation.

Oh please....

[Guest shiloh357]

Your view of salvation ultimately is that it is a reward we earn. In your book, we have to be good enough to be saved. That is the antithesis of grace.

Sorry, you are wrong about my view.

No, you simply lack the courage of your convictions. You teach a works-based salvation. You do not teach a grace-based salvation.

Oh please....

You could at least possess enough integrity to admit that you believe that you are saved by your works. Ultimately, that is where your argument always leads. Your position is that it is not faith alone that saves (who cares what Romans 3:28 says, right?). So it always comes to an argument over the kinds of works that must be performed.

[eis]

Your view of salvation ultimately is that it is a reward we earn. In your book, we have to be good enough to be saved. That is the antithesis of grace.

Sorry, you are wrong about my view.

No, you simply lack the courage of your convictions. You teach a works-based salvation. You do not teach a grace-based salvation.

Oh please....

You could at least possess enough integrity to admit that you believe that you are saved by your works. Ultimately, that is where your argument always leads. Your position is that it is not faith alone that saves (who cares what Romans 3:28 says, right?). So it always comes to an argument over the kinds of works that must be performed.

I would admit it if it were true. My position is and always has been that salvation is by grace through faith, but that grace is not received until one calls upon the Lord as has been taught by the total of Scripture, not just a few cherry picked verses.

[OneLight]

Your view of salvation ultimately is that it is a reward we earn. In your book, we have to be good enough to be saved. That is the antithesis of grace.

Sorry, you are wrong about my view.

No, you simply lack the courage of your convictions. You teach a works-based salvation. You do not teach a grace-based salvation.

Oh please....

You could at least possess enough integrity to admit that you believe that you are saved by your works. Ultimately, that is where your argument always leads. Your position is that it is not faith alone that saves (who cares what Romans 3:28 says, right?). So it always comes to an argument over the kinds of works that must be performed.

I would admit it if it were true. My position is and always has been that salvation is by grace through faith, but that grace is not received until one calls upon the Lord as has been taught by the total of Scripture, not just a few cherry picked verses.

Do you know the total of scripture, understanding it as He meant it to be understood? Grace is a free gift from God, not something we earn.

BTW ... have you figured our who your brothers in Christ are yet?