Visits to hell and heaven versus Biblical doctrine

[Hawkins]

So where in the bible does it say "There is no hell fire at this time"? All of these scriptures you have quoted say nothing about whether or not hell has any fire or not.

Gehenna is a place of burning just as Jesus said so where in the bible does it say that Gehenna is or is not a part of hell. And the Greek meaning of the word "Hades" is "the place of departed souls" ans has nothing to do with any hell fire according to the meaning of the word Hades.

According to Jesus the rich man was in hell and in tormented because he was burning and if your defense is to say that the parable of the rich man and Lazarus was just a store of make believe then please show me which scripture tells us that it was in deed a story with no value or truth.

You see according to the words of Jesus there is a hell and it is a place of burning and it does exist at this time and Hades is not the same place as hell. Thanks to King James the three Greek words that spoke of three different sections of "hell" the lower reaches of the earth were changed to the word hell in the interest of making it easier to understand that bible. But when he did this he eliminated the word "Torturous" from the bible and brought confusion as to the idea of what we now call hell. When Samuel was "disquieted" IE woken up and brought up from the grave was he on fire? No! Which tells us that the hell we know is not the same as "the place of departed souls".

If it is not written in the bible it is not.

Judgment at the Throne of God

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?searc...mp;version=NASB

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.

And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire This is the second death, the lake of fire.

The Judgment

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?searc...mp;version=NASB

Matthew 25:41

"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

The above are all talking about what will happen after the final Judgment.

Hades/hell/sheol are of the same place, from the interpretion of the different culture, of which hell bears one more meaning of a burning place.

Psalm 139:8 (NASB)

If I ascend to heaven, You are there;

If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You are there.

Psalm 139:8 (KJV)

If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

Before the final judgment, Hades/hell/sheol is described as 'darkness' or 'gloomy dungeons'.

2 Peter 2:4

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;

Edited May 6, 2010 by Hawkins

[Bold Believer]

Lately at my church there has been lots of talks about books written by various people about the Lord Jesus taking them out of this world and taking them to visit hell or heaven. As some of you may know, Mary K. Baxter's A Divine Revelation of Hell and a A Divine revelation of Heaven are bestsellers (since the 1980s). The lady was taken by the Lord Jesus, according to her, over a period of 30 days to visit hell annd heaven. In her book, she gives detailed descriptions of these two places. She also quotes the Lord Jesus word by word.

The lady was invited last fall to speak at my church.

Another book that is mentioned regularly during Sunday sermons is Heaven is So Real (By Korean American writer Choo Thomas). She also said that the Lord Jesus took her to visit Heaven many times and she even saw her own mother burning in hell for never having heard of Jesus.

Finally, there are the experiences of a Korean pastor (Baptize by Blazing Fire 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5) about his daily trips to hell (from 2006 until today in 2010) and the visits to hell and heaven that members of his church experienced during a 30-day all night prayer vigil.

My question is, how do these revelations fit with Biblical doctrine?

Personally, I have been feeling uncomfortable with certain parts of their experiences. The Bible, the Word of God, should be final say on everything. Yet these experiences claim to "complete" in more details the "vague " descriptions of the Lord Jesus about hell and heaven (these are not my words, but that's what the leaders at my church explained kindly to me when I raised questions).

Now these stories are mentioned more often than Biblical descriptions at the church. Also, a lot of the preaching focuses on how we can lose our salvation based on what these books say. Example: in Baptize by Blazing Fire, the pastor said he saw many Christians burning in hell for one important sin: spending and selling on Sundays (not keeping the sabbath). Not tithing regularly was also one action that sends lots of Christians to hell.

Please, I am a new Christian, but would love to hear from other Christians about this.

God bless and protect you all.

Salaam in Isa. Young Believer, it's ALL nonsense. Don't even bother to open one of those books. Stick to the Scriptures until you have a firm foundation under you spiritually.

[Bold Believer]

What church do you attend? Does it have a web site?

here is the website : this is the website

I need to pray about this. Something doesn't feel right at all!

Time to leave. When even your young spirit senses that something is wrong, it's time to go. Glad to hear that you got out.

[Massorite]

So where in the bible does it say "There is no hell fire at this time"? All of these scriptures you have quoted say nothing about whether or not hell has any fire or not.

Gehenna is a place of burning just as Jesus said so where in the bible does it say that Gehenna is or is not a part of hell. And the Greek meaning of the word "Hades" is "the place of departed souls" ans has nothing to do with any hell fire according to the meaning of the word Hades.

According to Jesus the rich man was in hell and in tormented because he was burning and if your defense is to say that the parable of the rich man and Lazarus was just a store of make believe then please show me which scripture tells us that it was in deed a story with no value or truth.

You see according to the words of Jesus there is a hell and it is a place of burning and it does exist at this time and Hades is not the same place as hell. Thanks to King James the three Greek words that spoke of three different sections of "hell" the lower reaches of the earth were changed to the word hell in the interest of making it easier to understand that bible. But when he did this he eliminated the word "Torturous" from the bible and brought confusion as to the idea of what we now call hell. When Samuel was "disquieted" IE woken up and brought up from the grave was he on fire? No! Which tells us that the hell we know is not the same as "the place of departed souls".

If it is not written in the bible it is not.

Judgment at the Throne of God

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?searc...mp;version=NASB

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.

And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire This is the second death, the lake of fire.

The Judgment

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?searc...mp;version=NASB

Matthew 25:41

"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

The above are all talking about what will happen after the final Judgment.

Hades/hell/Sheol are of the same place, from the interpret ion of the different culture, of which hell bears one more meaning of a burning place.

Psalm 139:8 (NASB)

If I ascend to heaven, You are there;

If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You are there.

Psalm 139:8 (KJV)

If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

Before the final judgment, Hades/hell/Sheol is described as 'darkness' or 'gloomy dungeons'.

2 Peter 2:4

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;

According to the Strong's 7585 in Psalm 139:8 the word hell means or speaks of (and I quote the Strong's exactly) " the word hell as being " the world of the dead (as if a subterranean retreat)" and my Brown-Driver-Briggs says the same but adds (a place of no return)

According the Holman's bible dictionary the word hell is an Anglo-Saxon word used to translate one Hebrew word and Three Greek word intop the one word IE HELL in the K.J. just as I said in my first post to you. In 2 Peter 2:4 it is true that it is a place of darkness and gloomy dungeons. However if you had done proper research you would have discovered that the word "hell" in 2 Peter 2:4 is not talking about the same hell you are. It is talking about "TARTAROO" which is a separate place from Hades and was considered by the Greeks as the abode of the wicked dead and is the place where the spirits (fallen angels) are in prison which is a place of punishment for those rebellious angels.

Gehenna on the other hand is a "PLACE OF BURNING" and in Matthew 18:9, Mark 9:43,45, 47 and Jas. 3:6 the word "hell" has been rendered hell from the Greek word "GEHENNA".

Now again if you had done the proper research you would have discovered these little nuggets and you wouldn't have made such a uneducated statement like "THERE IS NO BURNING AT THIS TIME".

I agree that some of those scriptures you have quoted are talking about what will happen to those on judgment day.

Now in all of those verses you quoted me you still have not answered my first question which was "So where in the bible does it say "There is no hell fire at this time"? And since you failed to answer my question I will answer it for you. THERE IS NO BIBLICAL PROOF, NO VERSE , NO WORDS AND NO STATEMENT that says there is no hell fire at this time written anywhere in the bible. Which is why you can't answer my question and by the way I already knew you wouldn't be able to come up with any biblical proof when I asked the question. Why? Because there is a place of burning at this time. Otherwise the word of God would told us so. Clearly!

Let us not forget what Jesus said to the thief on the cross "This DAY you shall be with me in paradise" and Paul tells us that Jesus first descended into the lower reaches of the earth before he rose from the grave. So by that statement we know that there is a "Paradise" some where in the lower reaches of the earth.

[Guest seven til heaven]

In faith you will learn to know when gods word is being passed onto you a sense of peace an understanding that is uncomprehendable will be noticed once you have heard true believers speak i think that the people which lead your church are not on the right road to salvation they are to concerned with what is being done wrong an not with what can be done right i consider myself to be a devote christian an speak with god everyday but that is not to say i see him or he takes me on trips to heaven or even that i attend church at all the problem is that as many have already said many will mislead you that is to make themselves feel as though they are more worthy than the rest of gods children as is even clear on this website worthy christains senior an royal members we are all equal in the face of god an all worthy of gods grace we jus must learn to accept it our churchs positions of higharce in my opinion should not exsist they allow the enemie to obtain power over entire congragations an sometime even chase away those of us reborn by instilling upon us rules an requlations an the consequnces which follow hence the storys u have heard of christians burning in hell for not attneding church services that in itself is misleading an bears no truth if we have asked for forgivness an mean it from the bottom of our hearts than we are forgiven no if ands or buts guidance of devine nature is a very personal thing u are here askin christians what they think of visits to heaven an hell yet we all are simply men we cannot ansewer that which u ask only further the argumentative nature that exsist within religion find individuals which u trust an have faith they will help you grow in yours that is not to say u won't have many qustions jus that you'll have an easier time understanding what christ can do for your life an yes undoubtly some of us who expernace death or near death experances have visited heaven not hell tho an those who did c the graces of heaven were taken there for a purpose far greater than this world can comprehend an those that i believe truly have seen the pearly gates tell thier storys simply an humble they are not taken back over an over it is a one time occurance we as individuals have to find the light inside ourselves dnt concern yourself so much with the next life we know what that is all about it is beyond words beyond emotion beyond comprehension jus try an do good for others benafit in this life an know you will be rewarded for it an i pray you don't fall to the politics religion has in this world

UNITED WE STAND DEVIDED WE FALL

hope this helped ya out it came from the heart joined this site jus to shine some light your way if your intrested in a true visitor to heaven i would reccomend reading Don Pipers book 90 min in heaven thanks for taken the time to read this an god bless

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