A MYSTERY : Rapture / Parable of the Ten Virgins

[rollinTHUNDER]

When I first posted this thread, I had to leave it unfinished because completing it caused me to become burnt out. It wasn't that the thread was so difficult, it was more because I am not a true writer, but I do believe the Lord is making a writer out of me. His work in me is not finished yet, as He is not finished with most of us yet, and when He is we will be called home. I have been trying to finish this thread lately, by adding more scriptures, deleting mistakes, and editting some of my words that are hard to understand. It is almost complete now, and I thank God because I never thought I would see the light at the end of the tunnel in this thread, and also, because He is faithful.

A few minutes ago, I also posted in my previous post, an excellent article that goes so wonderful with this thread. Cheers!!

[Matthitjah]

Rollin,

I say this with peace and Love . For I have enjoyed your posts in the prophecy section for the last few months . I feel the fellowship of Christianity with you. You have a godly inspired insight.

The foolish virgins will not be saved. They were told "I know you not." Nor will he know them. For if he would have known them after that. Then he would not have said what he said.G-d is omniscient. If the body of believers is the bride? The bride should be written in the Lambs book of life. When he comes. If he being omniscient? Knowing all things before. Shall take only select believers. Leaving behind believers that will believe at a later date. The bride will be incomplete. How then could he marry an incomplete bride?

2Co 11:2

For I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy; for I betrothed you to one husband, so that to Christ I might present you {as} a pure virgin.

Paul betrothed us not G-d. That he might present us as virgin. Not lusting after the world or other Gods.

Jesus has said we are his friends.

Joh 15:15

"No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you.

Joh 15:14

"You are My friends if you do what I command you.

In the traditional Jewish wedding ceremony. There is no date set. The friends and family have to wait until the shout and the trump (Blowing of Shofar) of the bridegroom. Then they can come to the wedding and the bride is presented .

Isaiah 62:1-5

1 For Zion's sake I will not keep silent, And for Jerusalem's sake I will not keep quiet, Until her righteousness  goes forth like brightness, And her salvation  like a torch that is burning. 2 The nations  will see your righteousness, And all kings your glory; And you will be called by a new name  Which the mouth of the LORD will designate. 3 You will also be a crown of beauty in the hand of the LORD, And a royal diadem in the hand of your God. 4 It will no longer be said to you, "Forsaken," Nor to your land will it any longer be said, "Desolate"; But you will be called, "My delight is in her," And your land, "Married"; For the LORD delights in you, And {to Him} your land will be married. 5 For {as} a young man marries a virgin, {So} your sons will marry you; And {as} the bridegroom  rejoices over the bride, {So} your God will rejoice over you.

He is speaking of Jerusalem in that passage.

Revelation 21:9-27

9 Then  one of the seven angels who had the seven  bowls full of the seven  last plagues came and spoke with me, saying, "Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb." 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the  holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, 11 having the glory of God. Her brilliance was like a very costly stone, as a stone  of crystal-clear  jasper. 12 It  had a great and high wall, with  twelve gates,  and at the gates twelve angels; and names {were} written on them, which are {the names} of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel. 13 {There were} three gates on the east and three gates on the north and three gates on the south and three gates on the west. 14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundation stones, and on them {were} the twelve names of the twelve  apostles of the Lamb. 15 The one who spoke with me had a gold measuring rod to measure the city, and its gates  and its wall. 16 The city is laid out as a square, and its length is as great as the width; and he measured the city with the rod,  fifteen  hundred miles; its length and width and height are equal. 17 And he measured its wall, seventy-two  yards, {according to} human  measurements, which are {also} angelic  {measurements.} 18 The material of the wall was jasper;  and the city was pure  gold, like clear  glass.  19 The foundation stones of the city wall were adorned with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation stone was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, chalcedony; the fourth, emerald;  20 the fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius;  the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, topaz; the tenth, chrysoprase; the eleventh, jacinth; the twelfth, amethyst. 21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls;each one of the gates was a single pearl. And the street of the city was pure  gold, like transparent glass.  22 I saw no  temple  in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb  are its temple.  23 And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the  glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp {is} the Lamb. 24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings  of the earth will  bring their glory into it. 25 In the daytime (for there  will be no night there) its gates will never be closed; 26 and they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it; 27 and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written  in the Lamb's book of life.

Here we clearly see the bride. The description of the city is  as of a bride on her wedding day. Adorned in her finest. Who is allowed in her? Only those written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb.

I do believe in the rapture. Or the taking away. Only it is not prior to the revelation of the man of perdition. Also it is not prior to the mark of the beast. If it were, we would not be warned to stay away from it.We also are not anymore special than any of the other Saints. They all suffered tribulation. The first the disciples suffered unspeakable deaths and tribulation. They were much mightier than us and did wonderful things in the name of our Savior.

In closing I see the virgins as a metaphor for the Lukewarm Christians. They had not the true spiritual oil. Their lights did not shine. The mere fact that they thought they could buy some indicates a lack of spiritual understanding.

I say this misunderstanding of the brethern is not dangerous to those of true faith. We will be ready no matter what. It's an issue of Eschaetology not of salvation. Where it poses a problem is to those of weak faith or those unsaved. Whom may take the mark or bow down just to save their own life . In so doing losing it forever.

Your brother,

Peace and Love of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

Peace :inlove: Amen

[rollinTHUNDER]

Rollin,

I say this with peace and Love . For I have enjoyed your posts in the prophecy section for the last few months . I feel the fellowship of Christianity with you. You have a godly inspired insight.

Hi Dr. Luke,

I too have enjoyed your fellowship as well, even though we disagree on many of these endtimes events in these last days. I knew you post-tribbers would have a hard time with this thread. You simply can not believe the truths of this thread and also your post-trib theory too, not without being wishy washy anyway. They just are not compatible with each other. But there is good news here, and that is that you have not believed both, which means you are not wishy washy. But by the same token, this also forces you to reject many of the warnings that this thread contains, which could prove to be very costly down the road.

I believe that the post-tribbers confuse the second coming with the rapture, or combine them into a single event, which leaves many unanswered questions. For instance, in one of these events (the rapture), we are told that the Lord will come like a thief in the night, unexpectedly, without signs and warnings. While the other (second coming) will be preceeded by many signs. For example, when you see the sun turn dark and the moon turn to blood, you will know that the second coming is near, and not only that, but every eye shall see Him coming. If these two events are the same one, then how can it come like a thief in the night, unexpectedly?? It simply can not happen that way because the Bible would then contradict itself. But, if these are two separate events as I believe they are, it all fits rather nicely.

I also want you to know that I do consider you to be a brother. I believe that if you are serving Christ when He comes for His bride, then you will be pleasantly surprised when you realize that you will not have to endure the time of testing that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live in the world. You see, if you are in Christ, then you are not part of this world. You are set apart and already passed this test by being a willing servant. You have already crucified your flesh and are living your life for Him. Why in the world would you need to be re-tested?? So you can die again maybe?? I think not. Christ knows full well who are His, and He knows which ones haven't yet passed this test, the ones who were neither hot or cold. It appears that you think that the 5 foolish virgins are Israel?? I would have to advise you to read chapters 2 & 3 in the book of Revelation, then you will see for yourself that He was warning His seven Churches.

I have a lot of trouble answering long posts like yours is here. I'm sorry, but my gift is not debating, in fact, I am terrible at it. I will try to answer some of your questions though, even though I believe some of it is taken out of context and doesn't even apply. I would very much appreciate it if next time you could shorten your posts up a bit. I get overwhelmed trying to answer this type of monster, especially since I still only type with one little finger  

But I will see what I can do with this one, but bear with me.

[rollinTHUNDER]

The foolish virgins will not be saved. They were told "I know you not." Nor will he know them. For if he would have known them after that. Then he would not have said what he said.G-d is omniscient. If the body of believers is the bride? The bride should be written in the Lambs book of life. When he comes. If he being omniscient? Knowing all things before. Shall take only select believers. Leaving behind believers that will believe at a later date. The bride will be incomplete. How then could he marry an incomplete bride?

You lost me here Doc.  

He tells the five foolish virgins, "I know you not" (present tense), which more than likely means at that moment (rapture). Another interesting point to back this up is the (first three words) of this chapter.

Matt. 25: 1 - "At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like..............". It is also very interesting to note that this is the only Parable that starts off with the words (At that time).

Also the word "know" was used in a way that we don't use it today. They used it as meaning : intimate or intimately. For instance = Mary was found to be with child, but she knew not a man. She was not intimate with any man, but yet she was with child.

At that time, we must know Him, and we must be in Him and Him in us. We must not forget our first love. We must be living in Him and for Him. He doesn't say, "I never knew you". He tells them He doesn't know them at that time, which could very easily be saying that they are not intimate at the present time.

We also know that He will tell some that He never knew them, but that is not the case here.

[rollinTHUNDER]

2Co 11:2

For I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy; for I betrothed you to one husband, so that to Christ I might present you {as} a pure virgin.

Paul betrothed us not G-d. That he might present us as virgin. Not lusting after the world or other Gods.

Paul is warning his converts to be pure here. He invested much time in building them up, and took care that they were not deceived, because He knew that He would also be rewarded for advancing the kingdom of Christ, and they thought of him as their spiritual father. Evidence of this is when he calls Timothy and others that he led to Christ his sons, but they were not his sons by blood, only in the spirit, sort of like Abraham is the father of many nations spiritually, but not all by his blood because most christians were grafted in. So, in that case, Paul did not betroth you, unless reading his words alone led you to Christ. I can speak for sure about myself, that He did not betroth me to Christ and he will not present me to Christ either, because I am not his convert. So what Paul is actually doing here is protecting his investment in the kingdom. He is storing up for himself treasure in heaven, which is what we all need to be doing.

The question is (What does pure mean)??

If you have one foot in Christ and onefoot in the world, this would be considered lukewarm, or a halfbreed if you will. And these are the ones that Jesus will spew out of His mouth, and they will be force to purify themselves in the tribulation. The Bible also says that many of these will also fall way, meaning that they will not be strong enough to endure to the end.

[Matthitjah]

Brother have peace for we agree on alot. Ours is a special bond not easily broken.

Please look at the posting in prophecy by Adstar. It is a warning on Rapture doctrine.

Paul betrothed us not G-d. That he might present us as virgin. Not lusting after the world or other Gods.

Poor choice of words on my part. Paul is writing to the church in Corinth. As the minister of  The Gentiles and the founder of the gentile churchs. He jealously guards them for as you have said they are his treasure. He is delivering the church at corinth up . Not us. Yet we must mark what he said because we too are Gentiles.

True we are grafted in. Not to superceede the Jews and not because we are better than them. We are grafted in because they did not believe. G-d used, and is using us to provoke them to jealousy. They are hard hearted and refuse to believe. We must not be vain and think we are higher than they or we will be degrafted as well. He can also prune our branch as it were.

Honest men of faith can disagree. Paul and the other disciples disagreed about preaching to the Gentiles. Specifically Peter thought for a long time that the word was only for the Jews.

We can agree to disagree. Love will settle the question soon anyway.

My concern is that some of weak faith may fall due to the fact that the Rapture doesn't occur early, as has been said.

Peace and blessings be too you my brother.

Peace :inlove: Amen

[rollinTHUNDER]

Jesus has said we are his friends.

Joh 15:15

"No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you.

Joh 15:14

"You are My friends if you do what I command you.

In the traditional Jewish wedding ceremony. There is no date set. The friends and family have to wait until the shout and the trump (Blowing of Shofar) of the bridegroom. Then they can come to the wedding and the bride is presented .

That's right Dr. Luke,

Slaves are outsiders, but we have been made friends, and even His brothers. We are family and also joint heirs. He is the only begotten Son, but He gave his life for His adopted brothers!! No doubt, He has proven His love for us.

You are also correct in that we have to wait, but there is also no preceeding signs and no invitations. He will come unexpectedly, like a thief in the night. This is the rapture, not the second coming.

[wordsower]

Thunder,

I am considring and studying everything you've posted here and I really have some questions.

First, everything I have learned and studied and understood is that we are made righteous by our faith in Christ.  The Holy Spirit puts a desire in us to do good.  Jesus prays for us not to fall.  God sees us as righteous through His Son.

Now, if all of that is true, true believers should be raptured because they are trying everyday to be like Christ.  I understand your point that those who are compromising Christians, lukewarm etc. wont be raptured, but it is because they aren't truly sown, right?  They fell by the wayside and the sun scorched them or the birds carried their faith away.

Now, the problem I have is the thought that those going through the trib have somehow spattered their garments and can't enter.  We've all done that, we all do that, we are none good enough to get in.  What about all those who died before now with spattered garments, how are they going to get washed clean?  

This doesn't all add up with me.  It seems like a reward for good behavior, and we already know that our righteousness is as filthy rags.  Jesus' blood is the only thing that can cover that.

Help me out here.

[rollinTHUNDER]

Isaiah 62:1-5

1 For Zion's sake I will not keep silent, And for Jerusalem's sake I will not keep quiet, Until her righteousness

[rollinTHUNDER]

Revelation 21:9-27

9 Then