angels4u Posted April 20, 2010 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 55 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 20, 2010 I also saw him on the show, Sid Roth's It's Supernatural. At this time, I have no comment. I have not read his book or know much about him. I'm a regular watcher of that show. I have one of the products from It's Supernatural and it's a worship CD by the lady Grace Williams.. and while the one advertised on the show did not do much for me, her other album Heaven's Rain. Is just amazing. I always, without fail, feel a deep peace while listening to that album. Some of the guests bring up red flags for me but I'm not saying Jonathan falls into that category. Jonathan Welton... I don't know much about him and won't comment about what I think just yet. It's a very dangerous thing with the lord to judge someone who you do not know.. so just wanted to make that clear to some who might feel tempted to do that. Doesn't the Bible tells us to test his Spirit by God in His Word says about this? It does, but not to make comments like. "I don't trust him because I don't like him." Or "I don't like him because he's from that church (or denomination)". I'm not saying anyone here has said that but because some might be tempted to make some kind of similar comment.. Its not a personal issue about him, but about what he is teaching, by what I 'm hearing here is that we have to becareful! Did you ever hear anybody else claiming to see lights around Christians or darkness about non believers and see angels and snakes on buildings ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted April 20, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted April 20, 2010 I am concerned when Jonathan states that there is an 8 fold ministry, not a 7 fold ministry, and that the office of "Seer" is the 8th. He states that a Prophet and a Seer are two different offices. To Jonathan, a Seer is one who can see the spirit realm, both angels and demons, and see the gifts on a person. He states that if you have a gift of healing, or of tongues, or of faith ... he can see them. He states that this office of a Seer operates under the gift of discerning of spirits, as found in 1 Corinthians 12:9, which he also states that this gift has been abused and misunderstood in all the church. While this sounds intriguing to those who want to know more about the spirit realm, or has experiences in the spirit realm, it is not scriptural. If it is not scriptural, I have to question if it is of God or not. If the gift of discerning of spirits included seeing the spirit world, of other gifts on a person, God would of shown these manifestations in His word, which I have found none. Good points. I believe anyone can see into the spirit realm and that it's not limited to those with discernment. If you are born again, I believe, a benfit of that is that your regenerated soul is now able to see in the spirit through the power of the Holy Spirit. Sometimes though, God may put something like scales on some peoples eyes to prevent them from seeing.. I believe anyone born again can see into the spirit though. If what you say is true, realize that there are not just "some people" who have scales, but most. In all the time I have been a Christian, there are only a couple of people I have come across that have stated to have the ability to see spirits, making those who do an extremely small percentage, somewhere in the realm of 0.001% (just a guess). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blien Posted April 20, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 346 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,050 Content Per Day: 0.50 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 3 Joined: 10/02/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/26/1982 Share Posted April 20, 2010 I also saw him on the show, Sid Roth's It's Supernatural. At this time, I have no comment. I have not read his book or know much about him. I'm a regular watcher of that show. I have one of the products from It's Supernatural and it's a worship CD by the lady Grace Williams.. and while the one advertised on the show did not do much for me, her other album Heaven's Rain. Is just amazing. I always, without fail, feel a deep peace while listening to that album. Some of the guests bring up red flags for me but I'm not saying Jonathan falls into that category. Jonathan Welton... I don't know much about him and won't comment about what I think just yet. It's a very dangerous thing with the lord to judge someone who you do not know.. so just wanted to make that clear to some who might feel tempted to do that. Doesn't the Bible tells us to test his Spirit by God in His Word says about this? It does, but not to make comments like. "I don't trust him because I don't like him." Or "I don't like him because he's from that church (or denomination)". I'm not saying anyone here has said that but because some might be tempted to make some kind of similar comment.. Its not a personal issue about him, but about what he is teaching, by what I 'm hearing here is that we have to becareful! Did you ever hear anybody else claiming to see lights around Christians or darkness about non believers and see angels and snakes on buildings ? I've never seen a light or darkness around people as he did but I have a friend who gave me the same description of something she saw several months before. For myself, I saw the actual spirit of a person shining bright through a vision. I was at church and judging people (as I said above) without knowing anything about the person.. God clearly spoke to me and said "Don't look on the outside" and then suddenly I was in the spirit and saw their spirits bright white. I saw my ex girlfriend in complete darkness a dream talking with a demon - found out several months later she was a witch and the cause for all my demonic attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blien Posted April 20, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 346 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,050 Content Per Day: 0.50 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 3 Joined: 10/02/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/26/1982 Share Posted April 20, 2010 I am concerned when Jonathan states that there is an 8 fold ministry, not a 7 fold ministry, and that the office of "Seer" is the 8th. He states that a Prophet and a Seer are two different offices. To Jonathan, a Seer is one who can see the spirit realm, both angels and demons, and see the gifts on a person. He states that if you have a gift of healing, or of tongues, or of faith ... he can see them. He states that this office of a Seer operates under the gift of discerning of spirits, as found in 1 Corinthians 12:9, which he also states that this gift has been abused and misunderstood in all the church. While this sounds intriguing to those who want to know more about the spirit realm, or has experiences in the spirit realm, it is not scriptural. If it is not scriptural, I have to question if it is of God or not. If the gift of discerning of spirits included seeing the spirit world, of other gifts on a person, God would of shown these manifestations in His word, which I have found none. Good points. I believe anyone can see into the spirit realm and that it's not limited to those with discernment. If you are born again, I believe, a benfit of that is that your regenerated soul is now able to see in the spirit through the power of the Holy Spirit. Sometimes though, God may put something like scales on some peoples eyes to prevent them from seeing.. I believe anyone born again can see into the spirit though. If what you say is true, realize that there are not just "some people" who have scales, but most. In all the time I have been a Christian, there are only a couple of people I have come across that have stated to have the ability to see spirits, making those who do an extremely small percentage, somewhere in the realm of 0.001% (just a guess). Just a personal theory, I don't actually know if anyone can see what I see.. but I have run across several people who do. So I theorized that anyone can, but not everyone will. And it's better that way.. there are some odd things in the spirit that would freak out some people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted April 20, 2010 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 55 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 20, 2010 I am concerned when Jonathan states that there is an 8 fold ministry, not a 7 fold ministry, and that the office of "Seer" is the 8th. He states that a Prophet and a Seer are two different offices. To Jonathan, a Seer is one who can see the spirit realm, both angels and demons, and see the gifts on a person. He states that if you have a gift of healing, or of tongues, or of faith ... he can see them. He states that this office of a Seer operates under the gift of discerning of spirits, as found in 1 Corinthians 12:9, which he also states that this gift has been abused and misunderstood in all the church. While this sounds intriguing to those who want to know more about the spirit realm, or has experiences in the spirit realm, it is not scriptural. If it is not scriptural, I have to question if it is of God or not. If the gift of discerning of spirits included seeing the spirit world, of other gifts on a person, God would of shown these manifestations in His word, which I have found none. Good points. I believe anyone can see into the spirit realm and that it's not limited to those with discernment. If you are born again, I believe, a benfit of that is that your regenerated soul is now able to see in the spirit through the power of the Holy Spirit. Sometimes though, God may put something like scales on some peoples eyes to prevent them from seeing.. I believe anyone born again can see into the spirit though. If what you say is true, realize that there are not just "some people" who have scales, but most. In all the time I have been a Christian, there are only a couple of people I have come across that have stated to have the ability to see spirits, making those who do an extremely small percentage, somewhere in the realm of 0.001% (just a guess). Just a personal theory, I don't actually know if anyone can see what I see.. but I have run across several people who do. So I theorized that anyone can, but not everyone will. And it's better that way.. there are some odd things in the spirit that would freak out some people. Sometimes you can sense if people are happy or sad or mad by their surrounding and the air can even feel heavy around certain people, and in a sense this is spiritual too, I actually know 2 people seen things but its what Onelight said a very small percentage, the mind is strange and can come up with very weird things, I had a not so nice dream last week and woke up wit it feeling very uncomfortable but I wouldn't be looking for meanings, sometimes your mind can make a story from the things going on your life,very complicated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted April 20, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted April 20, 2010 Did you ever hear anybody else claiming to see lights around Christians or darkness about non believers and see angels and snakes on buildings ? When I was a child, I saw snakes all over the yard. No one else saw them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blien Posted April 20, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 346 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,050 Content Per Day: 0.50 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 3 Joined: 10/02/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/26/1982 Share Posted April 20, 2010 Did you ever hear anybody else claiming to see lights around Christians or darkness about non believers and see angels and snakes on buildings ? When I was a child, I saw snakes all over the yard. No one else saw them. Hey! I didn't see the snakes but I felt them! This was when I was overseas.. there was so many, they were crawling up my leg and I had to keep rebuking them until about 20 minutes later when I could leave that place, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest messiah17 Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 (edited) I am concerned when Jonathan states that there is an 8 fold ministry, not a 7 fold ministry, and that the office of "Seer" is the 8th. He states that a Prophet and a Seer are two different offices. To Jonathan, a Seer is one who can see the spirit realm, both angels and demons, and see the gifts on a person. He states that if you have a gift of healing, or of tongues, or of faith ... he can see them. He states that this office of a Seer operates under the gift of discerning of spirits, as found in 1 Corinthians 12:9, which he also states that this gift has been abused and misunderstood in all the church. While this sounds intriguing to those who want to know more about the spirit realm, or has experiences in the spirit realm, it is not scriptural. If it is not scriptural, I have to question if it is of God or not. If the gift of discerning of spirits included seeing the spirit world, of other gifts on a person, God would of shown these manifestations in His word, which I have found none. Good points. I believe anyone can see into the spirit realm and that it's not limited to those with discernment. If you are born again, I believe, a benfit of that is that your regenerated soul is now able to see in the spirit through the power of the Holy Spirit. Sometimes though, God may put something like scales on some peoples eyes to prevent them from seeing.. I believe anyone born again can see into the spirit though. *hi i hope all is well with you .. i would like to share something i hope i can shed some light ! Seers are very scriptual ...Gad was a SEER distinctly set apart from a prophet.1 CHRONICLE 21:9 9 The LORD said to Gad, David's SEER, 10 "Go and tell David, 'This is what the LORD says: I am giving you three options. Choose one of them for me to carry out against you.' " 11 So Gad went to David and said to him, "This is what the LORD says: 'Take your choice: 12 three years of famine, three months of being swept away before your enemies, with their swords overtaking you, or three days of the sword of the LORD -days of plague in the land, with the angel of the LORD ravaging every part of Israel.' Now then, decide how I should answer the one who sent me." 13 David said to Gad, "I am in deep distress. Let me fall into the hands of the LORD, for his mercy is very great; but do not let me fall into the hands of men." 14 So the LORD sent a plague on Israel, and seventy thousand men of Israel fell dead. 15 And God sent an angel to destroy Jerusalem. But as the angel was doing so, the LORD saw it and was grieved because of the calamity and said to the angel who was destroying the people, "Enough! Withdraw your hand." The angel of the LORD was then standing at the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite. 16 David looked up and saw the angel of the LORD standing between heaven and earth, with a drawn sword in his hand extended over Jerusalem. Then David and the elders, clothed in sackcloth, fell facedown. 17 David said to God, "Was it not I who ordered the fighting men to be counted? I am the one who has sinned and done wrong. These are but sheep. What have they done? O LORD my God, let your hand fall upon me and my family, but do not let this plague remain on your people." 18 Then the angel of the LORD ordered Gad to tell David to go up and build an altar to the LORD on the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite. 19 So David went up in obedience to the word that Gad had spoken in the name of the LORD. *if seers were prophets why did the lord himself make it clear to isreal that seers were different from prophets. 2 Kings 17:13 The LORD warned Israel and Judah through all his prophets and SEERS: "Turn from your evil ways. Observe my commands and decrees, in accordance with the entire Law that I commanded your fathers to obey and that I delivered to you through my servants the prophets." 2 Kings 17:12-14 (in Context) 2 Kings 17 (Whole Chapter) Isaiah 29:10 The LORD has brought over you a deep sleep: He has sealed your eyes (the PROPHETS); he has covered your heads (the SEERS). Isaiah 29:9-11 (in Context) Isaiah 29 (Whole Chapter) Isaiah 30:10 *Even in this day and time seers don't want to be heard because sadly people fear what they See They say to the seers, "See no more visions!" and to the prophets, "Give us no more visions of what is right! Tell us pleasant things, prophesy illusions. Isaiah 30:9-11 (in Context) Isaiah 30 (Whole Chapter) Results from Gospel.com *Discern means to see or perceive. Isaiah 6:1 - Edited April 22, 2010 by messiah17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted April 22, 2010 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,264 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,992 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted April 22, 2010 I am concerned when Jonathan states that there is an 8 fold ministry, not a 7 fold ministry, and that the office of "Seer" is the 8th. He states that a Prophet and a Seer are two different offices. To Jonathan, a Seer is one who can see the spirit realm, both angels and demons, and see the gifts on a person. He states that if you have a gift of healing, or of tongues, or of faith ... he can see them. He states that this office of a Seer operates under the gift of discerning of spirits, as found in 1 Corinthians 12:9, which he also states that this gift has been abused and misunderstood in all the church. While this sounds intriguing to those who want to know more about the spirit realm, or has experiences in the spirit realm, it is not scriptural. If it is not scriptural, I have to question if it is of God or not. If the gift of discerning of spirits included seeing the spirit world, of other gifts on a person, God would of shown these manifestations in His word, which I have found none. Sounds like New Age stuff to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted April 22, 2010 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,264 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,992 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted April 22, 2010 I am concerned when Jonathan states that there is an 8 fold ministry, not a 7 fold ministry, and that the office of "Seer" is the 8th. He states that a Prophet and a Seer are two different offices. To Jonathan, a Seer is one who can see the spirit realm, both angels and demons, and see the gifts on a person. He states that if you have a gift of healing, or of tongues, or of faith ... he can see them. He states that this office of a Seer operates under the gift of discerning of spirits, as found in 1 Corinthians 12:9, which he also states that this gift has been abused and misunderstood in all the church. While this sounds intriguing to those who want to know more about the spirit realm, or has experiences in the spirit realm, it is not scriptural. If it is not scriptural, I have to question if it is of God or not. If the gift of discerning of spirits included seeing the spirit world, of other gifts on a person, God would of shown these manifestations in His word, which I have found none. Good points. I believe anyone can see into the spirit realm and that it's not limited to those with discernment. If you are born again, I believe, a benfit of that is that your regenerated soul is now able to see in the spirit through the power of the Holy Spirit. Sometimes though, God may put something like scales on some peoples eyes to prevent them from seeing.. I believe anyone born again can see into the spirit though. If what you say is true, realize that there are not just "some people" who have scales, but most. In all the time I have been a Christian, there are only a couple of people I have come across that have stated to have the ability to see spirits, making those who do an extremely small percentage, somewhere in the realm of 0.001% (just a guess). Just a personal theory, I don't actually know if anyone can see what I see.. but I have run across several people who do. So I theorized that anyone can, but not everyone will. And it's better that way.. there are some odd things in the spirit that would freak out some people. I have been exposed to some demonic activity that I could see, but I don't normally see into the spirit world. The people that I do know who can have usually suffered some kind of abuse in thier childhood and had to split and form multiple personalities. All the people I know who were forced into that can see into the spirit world. Those that were involved in Satanic Ritual Abuse are more likely to almost live in the spirit world, but that's a whole different story. I don't think everyone who can see into the spirit world has been abused or has multiple personalities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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