Jewish Question

May 2, 2010

As more and more mainline Christian denominations are taking a hard stand against Israel by such things as boycotts and official public denunciations, I have to ask this question:

Can one be a Christian and not love and support the Jews?

This is more of a discipleship question than a salvation question. The level of biblical literacy is appalling in the replacement theology churches. They pretty much stay in the shallow water and splash at anyone who goes deep.

May 2, 2010

As a nation, they hold no special place. They were judged in AD 70 as foretold by Jesus and the Apostles. They no longer have favored nation status with God, why should they with us.

As members of the human race they should be treated as everyone else, dignity, respect, souls for whom Jesus died, in need of the gospel plan of salvation.
Read the Bible lately?

that was a rather nasty, passive-aggressive reply, parker. i think we should be able to differ with each other as far as opinions go without implying that one who disagrees with us is "less than".

except that they are....

The church who is indifferent towards Israel is the same church that is historically silent when jews are persecuted OR are actively supporting it.

This IS the dividing line between sheep and goats when Messiah judges the nations.

Matthew 25:31-46

May 2, 2010

so, what you are saying is that this passage is dealing with the nation of Israel and how people treat the Jews? noidea.gif

31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37 "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40 "The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44 "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

45 "He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

Yes, of course! That is why it is called The Judgement of the Nations because it clearly and specifically says, "All the nations will be gathered before him....." and that also why He calls them His "brethren"

Since 600 B.C., this is exactly what the jews expect Messiah was/is supposed to do (See Joel 3 quoted below) and that is the whole reason Yeshua was speaking this to a 100% jewish audience, so they would know He is claiming to be the Messiah.

Joel 3

The Nations Judged

1 "In those days and at that time, when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem,

2 I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will enter into judgment against them concerning my inheritance, my people Israel, for they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land.

May 2, 2010

Is it not possible to love and support someone (or something) and not agree with all their actions? Are they not accountable for their actions because they are the "chosen people of God"?

Where I come from loving and supporting is not the same a turning a blind eye to misdeeds and mistakes, in fact that is just the opposite of love and support

There seems to be a very long record of Israel not doing the right thing in the bible, are we to assume that all of a sudden that has now changed?

No one ever said that we should love and support "misdeeds and mistakes" (which is pretty vague, btw)

But those who hate Israel do so out of a blind hatred. There is no light in them. Christians would have a responsibility to find out what is true before defiling themselves with the hatred of others.

Any reasonable thinking person should be able to discern that the wicked are lying when they make liable statements about Israel. It's one thing to be deceived into believing a lie but another to perpetuate that lie. In other words, if someone feeds me some baloney and says it's turkey, it isn't sin on my part to eat it unknowingly. However, if I'm going to pass that baloney on to the next person, I have a responsibility to know if it's kosher or not. (a metaphor about deception using dietary examples)

Christians, of all people, will be held accountable if they are found kicking against the goads. To whom is given much, much will be expected. The truth will set people free so it then becomes a matter of whether the truth is even being sought after.

Fraught · May 2, 2010

Do you not know who Jesus said was his mother and brothers ? It wasn't his biological family. Salvation is to be found in Christ Jesus, not in a bloodline.

nebula · May 2, 2010

by the way...wasnt everything that Jesus taught, taught to a 100% jewish audience?

The point was Jesus was making a prophetic declaration of who He is.

There are many times Jesus revealed Himself to be the Messiah in the things He said and did that we miss because we don't understand/know/recognize the teachings and declarations of Messiah the way they did. I'm not saying we don't know any, but there are many that we have not been taught about.

May 2, 2010

The point was Jesus was making a prophetic declaration of who He is.

There are many times Jesus revealed Himself to be the Messiah in the things He said and did that we miss because we don't understand/know/recognize the teachings and declarations of Messiah the way they did. I'm not saying we don't know any, but there are many that we have not been taught about.

forgive me for my ignorance, but from what I have read in the Bible, it seems that the Jews didnt really understand/know/recognize the teachings all that well.

So, in this passage, this prophetic declaration, does that mean that we dont really need to treat people this way, since it was just a prophetic declaration after all?

That is an absurd question and I think you know that is not yod, neb or anyone else means. We are to be charitable to all people and there are plenty of Scriptures to back up that issue. However, the judgment of the nations pertains to how the nations treated Jesus' bretheren after the flesh (Jesus is still a Jew, by the way).

May 2, 2010

That is an absurd question and I think you know that is not yod, neb or anyone else means. We are to be charitable to all people and there are plenty of Scriptures to back up that issue. However, the judgment of the nations pertains to how the nations treated Jesus' bretheren after the flesh (Jesus is still a Jew, by the way).

so, only the Jews are Jesus' bretheren?

In physical terms, which is what that passage is referring to, yes. They are his brethen after the flesh. I think my previous post made that clarification.

May 2, 2010

forgive me for my ignorance, but from what I have read in the Bible, it seems that the Jews didnt really understand/know/recognize the teachings all that well.

Well, apparently neither do you

So, in this passage, this prophetic declaration, does that mean that we dont really need to treat people this way, since it was just a prophetic declaration after all?

It is a principle that can be applied universally, but those who want to know the truth will seek the correct interpretation so they know how to apply it.

Those who don't want to know the truth, simply mock.

May 2, 2010

In physical terms, which is what that passage is referring to, yes. They are his brethen after the flesh. I think my previous post made that clarification.

I am sorry, I guessed I missed the "after the flesh" part in the passage from Matthew, I will have to go back and read it again.

The problem is solved quite simply by who the sheep are. There are three groups of people in the passage. The sheep, the goats and "my bretheren." The sheep and the goats are judged by how they treated Jesus' bretheren. It is a parallel account to the passage in Joel three, where The Lord brings all the nations to the valley of Jehoshephat to judge them pertaining to the way they treated Israel and forced Israel to divide their Land.