Tithing is unscriptural in the New Covenant

[One Way]

Greetings One Way,

My church does not pass a plate or bag, rather they have an agape box placed in teh back of the sanctuary where you can leave your gifts. I find this to be a much better way of providing the opportunity to partake in what God is doing, rather than "just wanting to get the plate in front of everyone each service."

I appreciate the fact that many saints have begun to recognize the falseness of "the law of the tithe" and I thank our initial poster for bringing this up.

But my question for you is, does your church also post or present to its members a tally of the church's income and outgo? I have seen one Baptist church that posts a monthly tally of their collections and expenditures on their church bulletin board, and I appreciated that, as I felt this was an encouragement to the congregation that the finances were being ministered according to God's purposes and not mans. However, this could be easily manipulated and I would never know. I would have to "experience" the pastor/elders ministry for myself to determine if the appropriate "fruit" was being produced.

Also, does your church find that by allowing God to "bring in the sheaves", is it MORE or LESS than what is collected in churches that preach "tithing"? I think I heard somewhere that of the total wealth of the individuals of a particular church, only about 2-10% or less make up the vast majority of the contributions to that church. How do you find this to be at your church?

Thank you and God Bless,

Dad Ernie

DadE, the books at our church are open for all supporting sheep to see. I know my Pastor personally and know that he is a man after God's own heart. I trust Him to use the resources wisely, just as God trusts him to shepherd us.

Regarding the "dollar ratio" of those who pass the plate and those who don't?

I can't say as I don't have enough info. I can just tell you this. When I give I want it to be done cheerfully and not begrudgingly. The plate, to me, may possibly garner more funds, but how much of those are out of "grudging obligation" because somebody didn't want to be seen as "cheap" becaue the person next to them simply saw them pass the plate along?

Also, we are not to let the left hand know what the right is doing... and we are not to do our alms (I know this isn't alsm, but it is still the topic of giving) in front of men.

All of these reasons, to me, say that the Agape Box is a way to allow people to share in God's work, but at the same time keep the motivation true.

Plus, it shows that the Pastor trusts God.

If the necessary funds are not available to do such and such, perhaps God doesn't want us to do such and such!

Where God guides, God provides!

[One Way]

I certainly believe that the concept of tithes and offerings has been distorted and tainted by the "prosperity" message often preached today (and by greedy ministers). HOWEVER, I think what you are teaching here is perhaps no better. Why? Because we are blessed people. God has blessed us so that we can be a blessing. Giving a percentage of your income is a discipline that teaches us dependence on God. I agree that the amount should not be pre-set, but that each person should give according to how the Holy Spirit leads. But lets not forget, if we sow sparingly, we reap sparingly.

2 Corinthians 9:6-8

6 Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. 7 Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work.

You may not find the mandate to tithe in the New Testament, but what you will find is believers living under the covenant of Grace. Something my brother has said is, "If they could give under the law, I can certainly give under grace". The ppl in the old covenant were required to give and make sacrifices. We, on the other hand, have the blessing of giving freely ..and should do so REGULARLY out of a heart of gratitude. We have so much more reason to give than they did in the Old Covenant...we have been set free!. Romans 12: 1 tells us we should be living sacrifices. Every part of our lives (including finances) should be lived as an offering back to God.

The problem I have with this type of topic/teaching (that tithing is unbiblical), is that it seems to come from a spirit of ungratefulness. I'm not saying you're ungrateful, but it appears that some are searching for loopholes to free them from something they see as an obligation, rather than an honor. Not only that, but it also seems to possess an attitude of "what i have is mine to keep if i choose". Um, no. Everything you have belongs to God in the first place, not you.

Also, according to Scripture (Galatians 3 to be exact) those of us in Christ are heirs to the promises God made to Abraham. What were those promises? That we would be blessed ... so that we could BE a blessing. There's no getting around the fact that we are called to give and to give abundantly.

Therefore, I see no point in wasting time and energy trying to disprove tithes and offerings. In my opinion, time could be better spent reminding ppl how blessed they are and how they can use that blessing. I'm concerned that teaching ppl that tithing is "unbiblical" sends the message that "you don't owe God" ...when in all reality, we owe Him absolutely everything. Truth be told, we should be willing to lay everything down...not just 10% but 100% ... none of it really belongs to us anyway.

Amen, Tess! I agree with everything you said here.

I don't find a problem with discussing the specifics of tithing, though.

But, you are most correct in your assessment of us as NT saints!

[Kabowd]

I agree with you One Way..and the church I moved away from operated much the same as yours. We had baskets that were on tables where ppl were encouraged to leave their tithes and offerings. The church never seemed to struggle financially, everything was taken care of. The pastor never twisted scripture or anyone's arm to get them to give. He taught us who we are in Christ, and out of a grateful heart (understanding the blessed children that we are), we were compelled to give.

I think if a church is teaching the Word, serving others, giving to the community (the poor, the needy, the widows, the orphans), and worshipping in Spirit and Truth...there is no need to worry about finances. They should trust that God can and will speak to the hearts of His people to give.

I don't think there is anything wrong with discussing these things, but I think it's wrong to teach we aren't "obligated by the law" to give. It's true we have been set free from the law..which is all the more reason we should give, not less.

One more thing, I think the attitude that God is trying to get something from us is totally wrong. If we can look at it like He is trying to get something to us, then maybe we'll see His heart. God's heart is to bless His children. If He sees that we aren't willing to release what He gives us to others, why should we expect Him to give us anything more? Just a few thoughts...

[IslandRose]

I certainly believe that the concept of tithes and offerings has been distorted and tainted by the "prosperity" message often preached today (and by greedy ministers). HOWEVER, I think what you are teaching here is perhaps no better. Why? Because we are blessed people. God has blessed us so that we can be a blessing. Giving a percentage of your income is a discipline that teaches us dependence on God. I agree that the amount should not be pre-set, but that each person should give according to how the Holy Spirit leads. But lets not forget, if we sow sparingly, we reap sparingly.

2 Corinthians 9:6-8

6 Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. 7 Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work.

You may not find the mandate to tithe in the New Testament, but what you will find is believers living under the covenant of Grace. Something my brother has said is, "If they could give under the law, I can certainly give under grace". The ppl in the old covenant were required to give and make sacrifices. We, on the other hand, have the blessing of giving freely ..and should do so REGULARLY out of a heart of gratitude. We have so much more reason to give than they did in the Old Covenant...we have been set free!. Romans 12: 1 tells us we should be living sacrifices. Every part of our lives (including finances) should be lived as an offering back to God.

The problem I have with this type of topic/teaching (that tithing is unbiblical), is that it seems to come from a spirit of ungratefulness. I'm not saying you're ungrateful, but it appears that some are searching for loopholes to free them from something they see as an obligation, rather than an honor. Not only that, but it also seems to possess an attitude of "what i have is mine to keep if i choose". Um, no. Everything you have belongs to God in the first place, not you.

Also, according to Scripture (Galatians 3 to be exact) those of us in Christ are heirs to the promises God made to Abraham. What were those promises? That we would be blessed ... so that we could BE a blessing. There's no getting around the fact that we are called to give and to give abundantly.

Therefore, I see no point in wasting time and energy trying to disprove tithes and offerings. In my opinion, time could be better spent reminding ppl how blessed they are and how they can use that blessing. I'm concerned that teaching ppl that tithing is "unbiblical" sends the message that "you don't owe God" ...when in all reality, we owe Him absolutely everything. Truth be told, we should be willing to lay everything down...not just 10% but 100% ... none of it really belongs to us anyway.

Great Insight, Beautifully worded!

[Trinity]

I believe the bible teaches tithing, just churches push it way of doctrine.

Edited August 12, 2004 by Trinity

[Shelby]

I think I agree, haven't really thought about it much though. I am a person who loves boundaries. So I like that I can look back to the OT and see what God suggested. So when I am not sure what to give because of financial instability, I can give 10%. There are times we give more sometimes less. But guidelines are good. Why would God put that in His word if he didn't want to give us an idea of what we should do with our money.

Ultimately, I heard someone say don't hold on to tight to something, God might have to pry your fingers off of it if it becomes between you two.

Money comes and goes, our Lord is here forever. He shall receive every percent of my money, whether it be for groceries for my family or in the offering plate. It in the end goes to continuing his will. (except I do have a thing for shoes, but I would give them up in a second if asked!)

mho

[Orr v'emet]

Thanks One-Way. Gives me something to think on.

[Willow]

You are so right Shelby!!

I generally agree that tithing has been unbiblically pushed on people. HOWEVER.....want to hear the irony of the situation? I work in my church, in the finance department, in a church that is very much into the accurate tithing thing, so that you are not found robbing God and you will be blessed. Not to mention that the congregation pays for my wages......

I find this continually a struggle. Especially when I get people on the phone calling me and asking if it was okay that they didn't tithe this past weekend and then proceed to tell me all their financial issues. I feel very bad. And there are so many people in this office who can listen to my answer I need to be careful how I word my response!! LOL oye....

Might I just add that It suprises me that most (so far) say that the "tithe and offering" doctrine is unbiblical.

No many churches do not teach this. This is usually found out by believers studying the word on their own.

but it appears that some are searching for loopholes to free them from something they see as an obligation, rather than an honor.

Yes and no. Some search to be free from the bondages of legalism. Don't forget, some people are in places where the simplest 'suggestion' in the bible is mandated down there throats. Yes it is an honor to give back to God. He is our provider in all things. We must have an outlet to be generous in all areas.

I think the main thing to consider in something like this is that we are supposed to be a NT church and they pooled their resources to help others and care for all the needs. We in North America don't have that. We hang onto our stuff, cling cling cling and then we find we are left hanging when it is taken away. Tithing, should be a lesson in faith in provision from God, worship to God in giving in recognition of his provision and love, and should be an outlet to show others the generosity of our hearts and that we are not set on the things of this world.

In NA, we do everything extreme. Either we extreme tithe or we extreme don't! lol. This is not a reality TV church show (oh gasp could you imagine?) in either case, we should consider it a joy to give to the Lord, and in the meantime, not ram it down peoples throats as hard core doctrine. I find the generous response to be greater when people are taught about selflessness and servanthood and repentance more than give to receive, give cause God demands it.

One further thought......we ARE blessed to be a blessing. Just think, your obediance in giving may be an answer to someone else's prayer. If God specifically asks you to give in a certain situation, do it! Think of how many times you have prayed for something. What if the answer to that prayer was depending on someone else who was unwilling or unobediant.

Just something to chew on that's all.....

:hug: :il:

Willow

[Kabowd]

but it appears that some are searching for loopholes to free them from something they see as an obligation, rather than an honor.

Yes and no. Some search to be free from the bondages of legalism. Don't forget, some people are in places where the simplest 'suggestion' in the bible is mandated down there throats...

I see what you're saying and I understand that some may be coming from that background. My concern is that they may go to the other extreme. Humans tend to have an either/or mentality (especially believers it seems..lol). They/We tend to think that if something isn't one way, it has to be the other, when in all reality many times both can compliment one another nicely.

Like I was eluding to earlier, it's really a heart issue. We can argue all day about where it is or isn't found in Scripture and about whether we are or aren't obligated to tithe. What isn't arguable is that our lives are forever indebted to God and His purposes. Instead of debating whether we have to give or not, we just need to obey. It's impossible to ever give more than He has given us. We should pour out our lives like a drink offering, not holding anything back.

[Shelby]

I believe titheing is imperative for a maturing relationship with Christ. Why would we not watn to give him atleast 10%. If it is the percent that everyone is hung up on, then think of the Good Samaritan. He gave all that he had for the sake of the call. I think we are getting hung up on this. God calls each of us to support our church. I bellieve when the spiritual maturity goes up the giving does as well. God does not put a ceiling on what we are to give, but he definitely calls us to give regularly. We must support our churches. Who esle will.