How do we overcome?

[enoob57]

Mat 13:3 And he told them many things in parables, saying: "A sower went out to sow.

Mat 13:4 And as he sowed, some seeds fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured them.

Mat 13:5 Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil,

Mat 13:6 but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away.

Mat 13:7 Other seeds fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked them.

Mat 13:8 Other seeds fell on good soil and produced grain, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Mat 13:9 He who has ears, let him hear."

Mat 13:18 "Hear then the parable of the sower:

Mat 13:19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is what was sown along the path.

Mat 13:20 As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy,

Mat 13:21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away.

Mat 13:22 As for what was sown among thorns, this is the one who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and it proves unfruitful.

Mat 13:23 As for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty."

How is it possible to spring up, having initial belief and joy, and then fall away, if OSAS is true? This parable is the words of Christ. There are some who believe and fall away. Where was their sealing?

Salvation is that which dwells eternally with God, to be delivered from evil, to be made able to serve in the Light of God.

1 Peter 1:3-5

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

NKJV

They were not saved for they were not kept. How is it possible... it is in smallness, nakedness, worthlessness for we are without strength in ourselves. We have only been created to need it is our Creator which gives the fulfillment to those needs; it is when we take the need without thankfulness that sin begins its ugly works. It is the same Love (essence of God) that gives the rains to both the thankful and unthankful. So as the fire of God takes from you the things that you use and need that which you consider vital and necessary will you forget this goodness?

1 Peter 1:7-9

7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith

[~candice~]

OK...

1 Peter 1:3-5

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

These promises and assurances are only available for those entering in by faith. Those who have turned aside and lost the faith, are lost, and should have no assurances.

No faith = no salvation.

[Guest man]

I still wonder how some one could lose their faith in Jesus.Seems impossible to me.Maybe someone who never really knew Him could.

There are non-believers that pass through here from time to time who claim they used to have faith but don't anymore. How that happens is beyond me. I don't understand it either.

[lekh l'kha]

OK...

1 Peter 1:3-5

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

These promises and assurances are only available for those entering in by faith. Those who have turned aside and lost the faith, are lost, and should have no assurances.

No faith = no salvation.

That's it - because the Israelites who perished in the wilderness did not cross into the promised land because they believed the evil report of the spies who said that could never defeat their enemies to inherit their promised rest - they did not have faith in the power of God and the salvation of YHWH.

That's a picture for us - our enemies are our own sins - the world, the flesh and the devil - but only God can keep us and lead us into the promised land - if our faith is in the salvation of YHWH (Yeshua) and not in ourselves. That's also a lesson we can learn from Peter - he trusted in his own strength saying, "I will" ("I will never deny you"). See? But Jesus says, "I WILL":

"I will..... put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more." (Jer 31:33-34)

Our faith must be in Jesus and in Jesus alone:

"For everything that has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that overcomes the world, our faith. Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?" (1Jn 5:4-5).

Therefore in the words of the late (Oh my goodness I've just forgotten his name.. can't think of it now...) but anyway, he said, we have to believe that Christ has bought our salvation and the New Covenant is like a gift-certificate for salvation - when someone gives you a gift-certificate, you only have to present it to the store-owner and the merchandise will be given you free of charge. It's not that the goods are free, but that someone has been there ahead of you and paid for it already - and the blood of Christ is forever in the presence of the Father to prove that He has paid for us and we are His purchased possessions.

If we love Him, we will not abuse the gift purposefully and without conscience. If we believe the gospel - if we believe in the salvation of YHWH, we will not hold ourselves unaccountable to Him for our actions, but accountable. If we love Him (and we love Him because He first loved us), then we will seek to please Him. And then even if we do sin, we have an advocate with the Father - Jesus Christ the Righteous. Those who do as they please without conscience obviously do not truly believe in God's salvation, Jesus Christ.

[enoob57]

OK...

1 Peter 1:3-5

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

These promises and assurances are only available for those entering in by faith. Those who have turned aside and lost the faith, are lost, and should have no assurances.

No faith = no salvation.

No arguments from me salvation is by faith in the completed works of the Lord Jesus Christ! Perseverance is after this established faith that causes salvation in a believer!

Candice what I am delivering to your examination is of Spiritual intuition yet exegetically it is sound:

Isa 44:6-8

6 "Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: 'I am the First and I am the Last; besides Me there is no God. 7 And who can proclaim as I do? Then let him declare it and set it in order for Me, since I appointed the ancient people. And the things that are coming and shall come, let them show these to them. 8 Do not fear, nor be afraid; Have I not told you from that time, and declared it? You are My witnesses. Is there a God besides Me? Indeed there is no other Rock; I know not one.'"

NKJV

Matt 20:16

16 So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen."

NKJV

This 'I am the First and I am the Last; So the last will be first, and the first last I believe He is communicating to us that as when we first began in Him so as the last we stand before Him.

You yourself asked why I took you to the Cross! Now this is the fullness of the answer "you said there was not other way for us to be redeemed but by the cross". For He is our advocate unto the Father and The Father drew us unto Christ to be our advocate eternally

John 17:2-5

2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

NKJV

So just as every word will be fulfilled So the last will be first, and the first last so our beginning also our ending the perfect works of Him within! Love Steven

[~candice~]

Steven I guess I am just struggling to follow your train of thought here.

We must have faith and remain in the faith in order to have access to the covenant assurances of salvation. We both agree that it was the sacrifice of Christ that atones for our sin - but that isn't the topic of discussion. The topic is the way by which we enter into this salvation, which is through faith.

Now if I understand right, you are saying that God supplies that faith and He cannot and will not take it from us, but I am saying that we can chose to walk away from this faith.

Christ does not have faith for us, we still have that onus on ourselves.

John 6

28Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"

29Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

John 3

16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

For me, there are too many passages that indicate an ability for a believer to walk away, for me to ignore. It is my sincere belief that saved people can walk away from this faith and reject the Lord.

[enoob57]

Now if I understand right, you are saying that God supplies that faith and He cannot and will not take it from us, but I am saying that we can chose to walk away from this faith.

I am a living witness that this is not so. No matter how much sin it will always be sin and unacceptable in the heart. His Word is written in stone at the end of the roads of sin and it reads - this is the lie and it has led you to the end and death and the child has no other course but to turn (repentance) back and live! Candice death and can never be life to the redeemed. There was a separation maintained by the power of God... I was never one of them and they were never part of me. It is one thing to be in theory it is another to come forth from life itself! Sin will not rest in the heart of the redeemed!

However Sister of mine!

We have a loving Father you and I! He will in His pleasure unite us all unto one doctrine one faith One Son our Lord and Husband forever! I am glad we are family, I rejoice in your love for Him. love Steven

[~candice~]

Now if I understand right, you are saying that God supplies that faith and He cannot and will not take it from us, but I am saying that we can chose to walk away from this faith.

I am a living witness that this is not so. No matter how much sin it will always be sin and unacceptable in the heart. His Word is written in stone at the end of the roads of sin and it reads - this is the lie and it has led you to the end and death and the child has no other course but to turn (repentance) back and live! Candice death and can never be life to the redeemed. There was a separation maintained by the power of God... I was never one of them and they were never part of me. It is one thing to be in theory it is another to come forth from life itself! Sin will not rest in the heart of the redeemed!

Steven, there are many who have backslidden terribly, and completely fallen away. You may have experiented otherwise, but personal experiences do not a doctrine make .

However Sister of mine!

We have a loving Father you and I! He will in His pleasure unite us all unto one doctrine one faith One Son our Lord and Husband forever! I am glad we are family, I rejoice in your love for Him. love Steven

Amen! Now that is something we can agree upon!