Dad Ernie Posted August 15, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,802 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/29/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1945 Share Posted August 15, 2004 Greetings Other One, DadEarnie, I read this post several times and I don't seem to understand where this post covers when the reserection/rapture happens. There will be some who are not dead but just changed in an instant. Can you help me understand how your post defines when this happens? A civil and well thought out question. Thank you. I made no elusion to the "rapture". The point of my last post was that before teaching others, one should be well-trained themselves. Since a very great deal is written regarding the future, AND the fact that Jesus says that he who reads and understands the Book of Revelation will be blessed, THEN our Father must believe this to be a significant portion of our understanding. In Amos, it is written that the Lord will do nothing without first telling His prophets beforehand. Jesus reiterates the same thing and tells His disciples: "Now I have told you before it happens so that when it occurs, you will believe." He tells us that we are no longer in darkness, but in the light, and that when we receive the Holy Spirit, He will reveal all things and even those things which are to come. The pre-trib view promotes an escapist mentality. The pre-trib view says that Christians remain in the dark. The pre-trib view does not believe that "signs" are given to reveal the season of the Lord's 2nd coming. The pre-trib view does not prepare the people for the Great Tribulation which is to come. And because of this they will fall easy prey to the Mark of the Beast and the False Prophet, after all they won't be here will they? We are commanded in Romans 11:31-32 to "show grace to the Jews", meaning that we are the ones to deliver the Gospel to them during the days of tribulation and even in the latter days (Deut 4:26-31). Read Romans 10, how Israel is going to be saved by someone being sent to them with the message of the Gospel. Eph 1-3 reveals that a "habitation wherein God shall dwell through His Holy Spirit" shall be completed and it will consist of both Jew and Gentile. The pre-trib view says that Jews only will go through the great tribulation, yet, can't account for the multitudes beyond count from ALL nations that will go through the great tribulation. Somehow those Jews are going to be saved, yet most pre-tribs believe the Holy Spirit is the "restrainer" and will be taken off this earth. SUCH NONSENSE! I suppose I could go on and on, but I hope this answers your question. It IS important to have a TRUTHFUL understanding of the latter days. Blessings, Dad Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishcowboy Posted August 15, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,248 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 15, 2004 Dad Ernie, there are two resurrections.... the first is the resurrection of the rightous, more commonly known as the rapture. the story of the ten virgins is an example of this..... this is where the Church is taken home..... those that have died in Christ and those that are still physically alive...... these are the ones that will enter the wedding feast of the Lamb.... those that are not ready ( jew or gentile, church goer and non church goer, every one that does not witness Christ ) will be left here on this earth to go thru the tribulation....... at the end of the tribulation, satan will be bound for 1000 years, and Christ rules for 1000 years, at the end of that, satan is released for a short season, to prove those that lived during the 1000 years, at the end of that time, we will have the second resurection which is of the dead that were not in Christ, the unfaithful servants........ if a person is waiting for the tribulation to start, to begin before they decide to take Christ as their Lord...... well, they will be tooo late, and then will have to live thru the trib..... THE GREAT TRIBULATION will not be fun and games..... if a person did not take Christ before the rapture, when life is fairly easy, how in the world do they think they can take Christ as their Lord during the Trib when all hell is breaking loose.... the tribulation will be a fight of the fittest, a time of survival.... there will not be any easy times that last 3.5 years........ some think that Egypt had it bad with the plagues..... that was nothing..... there will be some, a few, a handful of people that take Christ as their Lord during the Trib, but not many, for most will be trying to just get by..... and those that do take Christ, more then likely will not see the end of the Tribulation, they will be the ones martyred for Christ....... dont allow people to let you put off taking Christ as your Lord and Savior, cause as the 10 virgins, only 5 were ready..... and the other five were left out in the cold soto speak...... as with the feast, the word has been passed that dinner is served, but many will give excuses, and they will be left with out a bite of food..... the day comes that the church is taken up, it will be a total surprise, and that will be the opening act, the prelude to the great tribulation..... those that follow a post or mid trib rapture will believe there is some conspiricy going on.... they will be in denial..... alot of them will turn away from God totally, cause they were not following God when the rapture happened..... they will be calling God a liar for their own misinterpretation/ thoughts...... there will be some that will realize that they made an error, and those will be the ones that stand fast for Christ during the trib.... dont be mistaken and be left for the trib..... it aint worth it...... a short season of fleshly pleasure thinking we got plenty of time, is not worth eternity in the lake of fire........ a young man, several years ago, gave his heart to the Lord... wanted to be a youth pastor, and then have his own church.... getting mixed up with his friends... friends that go to the same church... he got into some trouble.... a 17 year old boy gave him some vodka, pot and cigarettes... they were involved in an acident... the younger one, just turned 16, is lucky, he was uninjured and is only facing fines and penalties of 400 - 1000 dollars with a possible 30 days in jail and 40 hours of community service.... the 17 year old, got dwi, contributing to the delinquency of a minor, consumption/possession of booze and tobacco by a minor, leaving the scene, failure to report an accident, ..... both boys are uninjured..... both boys were taking their lives here on earth and eternal in their own hands.... neither one is prepared... as the 5 foolish virgins...the 16 year old is currently slipping away, wanting to have fun with his friends.... , even when it is presented to him, he is not sure if he really wants to serve the Lord now or not.... it breaks my heart to see a young person get snagged by the enemy..... oh yea, the person that supplied the vodka to the 17 year old is only 18, and he will be facing the charges of providing to a minor, and then they will be going after the one that supplied it to him.... a bit of fleshly fun can lead to the lake of fire..... folks, there is no time for this kind of game.... God is not playing games here... you either take Him or you reject Him... if a person is waiting for the Trib to start before they take the Lord, then they are tooooooooooooooooooo late.... TOO LATE.... you've been left behind.......... you've been left behind......... mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishcowboy Posted August 15, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,248 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 15, 2004 oh yea, missed something, D.E. the Holy Spirit will still be here..... and it is not only the jew that will be left..... believe it or not, there will be ( there already is some ) jews that know about Christ, and will have Him prior to the rapture....... many are called....... ( we are all called ) ...... few are chosen.... why???? cause we fail to choose....... that is why there are few chosen.... it is our decission..... did you know they are playing the passion of the Christ in the Middle eastern, muslim countries???? yea, why???? cause they heard that it cuts the jews down, so they are all for it, so a good wittnessing tool is being shown thru-out the world...... all nations have heard the gosple... not all people but all nations..... there are some people that have not heard it..... so now that the nations have heard the Gosple we are ready.... anytime..... anyminute..... any second...... any millisecond, the Lord can have the trumpet sounded and we can go home...... mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi4Yahweh Posted August 15, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,955 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 636 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/12/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 15, 2004 being that no one knows the day or the hour of the rapture, the mid and post trib beliefs are not right....... for if you have a mid trib, you would be able to pin point the time frame.... if you was post trib, you would be able to also..... the rapture, is the resurection of those that are in Christ.... those that died while in Christ, and those that are alive in Christ will follow shortly after...... I dont think this will be the case. I believe that during the tribulation/Persecution many Christians will deny that this is the tribulation that Jesus spoke of. They will even deny that the Anti-Christ is the anti-christ. Most of the world we view him as a very charming and strong leader. Most of the world including America if she is around will look up to this man of Sin. The Persecution will come on the true believers while the worldly "christians" will go untouched. They will look up to this world leader as a hero to the world. The worldly "christians" will also be the ones persecuting and betraying the true christians. The bible says that "Christian Love" will grow cold and christians will betray one another turning them over to goverment officals. The bible says in the book of Daniel that this leader will reward "christians" to forsake the covenant of God and turn on those who continue to follow it. So I believe most Christians will not even know that they are in the tribulation unless they are living right with God and that is not very many people. The bible says in the last days that God is going bring strong delusions so that people will believe a lie and people will call that which is good evil and that which is evil good. So that day will still come unexpected. God bless, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest charlie Posted August 15, 2004 Share Posted August 15, 2004 I agree Jedi4Yahweh.. I sure do find myself agreeing with you a lot lately. Are you a sunday school teacher? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Posted August 15, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 92 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,244 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 63 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 15, 2004 I dont think this will be the case. I believe that during the tribulation/Persecution many Christians will deny that this is tribulation that Jesus spoke of. They will even deny that Anti-Christ is the anti-christ. Most of the world we view him as a very charming and strong leader. Most of the world including America if she is around will look up to this man of Sin. 1. The difference is some migt not believe that this is the Trib, but there will be people who do believe that there in the trib and so they would knowhis return. Matthew 24 36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 2. Heaven would know the time and the Hour. Jesus would know the time and the Hour, because who is leading the trib? who is pooring out the Judgments? who knows what is going on down there? who knows how many days it has been sense the Trib began? Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! and the bible said the son will know know the Time nor the hour and if it was at the end Jesus will clearly have to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Ernie Posted August 15, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,802 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/29/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1945 Share Posted August 15, 2004 Greetings, Boy this pre-trib drivel, really takes the cake. I am happy to see some scripturally well rounded folk show up in defense of the reality of the upcoming tribulation which we shall ALL face. Blessings, Dad Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi4Yahweh Posted August 15, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,955 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 636 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/12/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 15, 2004 I agree Jedi4Yahweh.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kitkat Posted August 15, 2004 Share Posted August 15, 2004 Please Read it will not take long, i have always read the post tribers thing please take time to read mine! lol Proof #1: Revelation 19:11-21 doesn't mention a resurrection. The rapture is a resurrection of those "in Christ" (1 Thess. 4:13-18). Isn't it a little bit odd that in Rev. 19:11-21, which is the clearest picture of the second coming of Christ, there is no mention of a resurrection? The rapture will be the biggest event since the resurrection of Jesus where hundreds of millions of Christians will be resurrected and translated, yet there isn't any mention here. Don't you think it deserves at least one verse? The rapture isn't mentioned because it doesn't happen at the second coming. Proof #2: Zechariah 14:1-15 doesn't mention a resurrection. This is an Old Testament picture of Jesus returning to earth at the second coming. Again, no mention of a resurrection. Proof #3: Two different pictures are painted. In the Old Testament, there were two different pictures painted of the Messiah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest charlie Posted August 15, 2004 Share Posted August 15, 2004 I do not consider myself to be some wise person, but some of the things that are in question are just plain elementry stuff that all Christians should know. A lot of these things seem pretty cut and dry to me too but I'm often told I'm the one that just "doesn't see". Maybe it is me but it's nice to know I'm not the only one around that doesn't agree with some of these "newer" doctrines. I don't think having a seminary degree is necessarily a bad thing, but some of the senarios some Christian authors are coming up with these days are downright misleading imo. I'm thinking of "Left Behind" at the moment. I read that Jerry Jenkins and Tim LaHaye originally planned on only 7 books but when the series "took off" they stretched it to 12; guess they weren't too worried about the rapture happening before they could finish #12 and collect the cash. I think pre-trib rapture is a theory that has to be taught to someone; you just don't come across it in the Bible or in traditional church teaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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