No sea

[enoob57]

Rev 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.

What do you think is the significance of no sea in the new earth?

Do you think it related to Gen 1?

Gen 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

Gen 1:2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

Gen 1:3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.

Gen 1:4 And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness.

Gen 1:5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.

Gen 1:6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters."

Gen 1:7 And God made the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so.

Gen 1:8 And God called the expanse Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.

Gen 1:9 And God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear." And it was so.

Gen 1:10 God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.

God saw that it was good... so the sea itself is not inherently evil. Why is it not on the new earth?

There are many cases in scripture where the land is separated from the water / sea. And here at the very end, we see no more sea.

Thoughts / ideas?

I have read analogies where this is compared to the lost / saved.

Analogies need to be taken with a grain of salt.

The Bible doesn't tell us the significance We don't really know the topography of the earth, pre-flood and the ratio of land to water. We need to be careful to read too much into a passage.

I vote yes to this truth... endless plausibilities... best to stand on foundational truths and enjoy the muse yet willing to be completely surprised!

I've witnessed people's cheese slide completely off the cracker in symbols and numbers analogies! It seems we have an itch to find that which is hidden!

I like to use the Good Lords wait upon Me and see itch cream!!! The minute you apply it the itch goes away!!!

Love Steven

[lekh l'kha]

It is really bitter sweet for me though. There are still some family members of mine that a part of the Gentile nations. At this time, they are gone. Forever separated from the Lord, no more chances to repent and be saved. While I will be in perfect comfort, praising the glorious King, they will be not so fortunate.

Time is short!

Yes. I understand exactly how you feel, and why. There is so much that is bitter-sweet:

"And I went to the angel and said to him, Give me the little book. And he said to me, Take it and eat it up, and it will make your belly bitter, but it will be sweet as honey in your mouth. And I took the little book out of the angel's hand and ate it up. And it was sweet as honey in my mouth, and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was made bitter." (Rev 10:9-10)

God bless, sis

Lekh

[enoob57]

I agree with the sentiment not to read into things that aren't there, but to reach understanding on a passage requires study, doesn't it? That's all that is happening here. There IS that analogy that runs throughout scripture about land / sea, believers / non believers.. . And I don't know how comfortable I am with being told there is no sea, but for no reason?

Candice it's our Father's will and the Son's delight it will be perfect in understanding, in result, in every way, while and thing! Love Steven

[~candice~]

Rev 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.

What do you think is the significance of no sea in the new earth?

Do you think it related to Gen 1?

Gen 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

Gen 1:2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

Gen 1:3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.

Gen 1:4 And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness.

Gen 1:5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.

Gen 1:6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters."

Gen 1:7 And God made the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so.

Gen 1:8 And God called the expanse Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.

Gen 1:9 And God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear." And it was so.

Gen 1:10 God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.

God saw that it was good... so the sea itself is not inherently evil. Why is it not on the new earth?

There are many cases in scripture where the land is separated from the water / sea. And here at the very end, we see no more sea.

Thoughts / ideas?

I have read analogies where this is compared to the lost / saved.

Analogies need to be taken with a grain of salt.

The Bible doesn't tell us the significance We don't really know the topography of the earth, pre-flood and the ratio of land to water. We need to be careful to read too much into a passage.

I vote yes to this truth... endless plausibilities... best to stand on foundational truths and enjoy the muse yet willing to be completely surprised!

I've witnessed people's cheese slide completely off the cracker in symbols and numbers analogies! It seems we have an itch to find that which is hidden!

I like to use the Good Lords wait upon Me and see itch cream!!! The minute you apply it the itch goes away!!!

Love Steven

Steven,

I believe it has been demonstrated that the analogy of the gentile nations to the sea is more than just a plausibility. Did you read Lekh's post?

As for the 'wait upon Me and see' itch cream... well, we are told to study the Word, and we are also specifically told that those who read and understand the revelation of Jesus are blessed.

Rev 1:1 This is the revelation which God gave to Yeshua the Messiah, so that he could show his servants what must happen very soon. He communicated it by sending his angel to his servant Yochanan,

Rev 1:2 who bore witness to the Word of God and to the testimony of Yeshua the Messiah, as much as he saw.

Rev 1:3 Blessed are the reader and hearers of the words of this prophecy, provided they obey the things written in it! For the time is near!

2Ti 2:15 Do all you can to present yourself to God as someone worthy of his approval, as a worker with no need to be ashamed, because he deals straightforwardly with the Word of the Truth.

2Ti 3:14 But you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, recalling the people from whom you learned it;

2Ti 3:15 and recalling too how from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which can give you the wisdom that leads to deliverance through trusting in Yeshua the Messiah.

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is valuable for teaching the truth, convicting of sin, correcting faults and training in right living;

2Ti 3:17 thus anyone who belongs to God may be fully equipped for every good work.

I don't see this analogy as the cheese sliding off the cracker, I see it as sound. But consider in our lives, we are not going to reach a full understanding of the truth hidden in the Word. There will always be things that have been revealed to others and yet not to us. I think we [and I do honestly mean we, you and I and everyone else] need to be careful that what we see as 'cheese sliding off the cracker' isn't an understanding given to someone else that we don't have.

Now that isn't to say that people go overboard and read into things that aren't there. They do. But the measuring stick is the Word, and these analogies need to be measured against that Word.

So let me ask another way. What do you do with the 'river of life' in Rev 22? Do you see it as physical-literal, or metaphoric? And if you see it as metaphoric, please explain your system of interpretation that does not then allow for other passages describing the new earth or the new Jerusalem as metaphoric.

(My turn for a longish post? )

God bless

Candice

[Guest shiloh357]

I agree with the sentiment not to read into things that aren't there, but to reach understanding on a passage requires study, doesn't it? That's all that is happening here. There IS that analogy that runs throughout scripture about land / sea, believers / non believers.. . And I don't know how comfortable I am with being told there is no sea, but for no reason?

No one said there is no reason, only that we don't have enough light on the issue to know what the reason is.

[Guest shiloh357]

As for the 'wait upon Me and see' itch cream... well, we are told to study the Word, and we are also specifically told that those who read and understand the revelation of Jesus are blessed.

Yes, that is true, but it must be tempered with the understanding that God is not in the habit of revealing everything to us and there are some things we simply wil not know until the Lord returns.

Paul says that for now we are looking through a darkened glass. There are opaque images and we can only speculate as to what we see.

[~candice~]

As for the 'wait upon Me and see' itch cream... well, we are told to study the Word, and we are also specifically told that those who read and understand the revelation of Jesus are blessed.

Yes, that is true, but it must be tempered with the understanding that God is not in the habit of revealing everything to us and there are some things we simply wil not know until the Lord returns.

Paul says that for now we are looking through a darkened glass. There are opaque images and we can only speculate as to what we see.

Shiloh I would agree with that approach to the revelation of scriptures through study, but not with the conclusion you have reached in this particular study.

God bless

Candice

[Guest shiloh357]

As for the 'wait upon Me and see' itch cream... well, we are told to study the Word, and we are also specifically told that those who read and understand the revelation of Jesus are blessed.

Yes, that is true, but it must be tempered with the understanding that God is not in the habit of revealing everything to us and there are some things we simply wil not know until the Lord returns.

Paul says that for now we are looking through a darkened glass. There are opaque images and we can only speculate as to what we see.

Shiloh I would agree with that approach to the revelation of scriptures through study, but not with the conclusion you have reached in this particular study.

God bless

Candice

If what I were saying were not true about this study, you wouldn't have needed to ask the question in the first place, and even then someone would have given you an actual concrete answer. This demonstrates that there just is not enough light to provide a definitive, solid answer.

[~candice~]

As for the 'wait upon Me and see' itch cream... well, we are told to study the Word, and we are also specifically told that those who read and understand the revelation of Jesus are blessed.

Yes, that is true, but it must be tempered with the understanding that God is not in the habit of revealing everything to us and there are some things we simply wil not know until the Lord returns.

Paul says that for now we are looking through a darkened glass. There are opaque images and we can only speculate as to what we see.

Shiloh I would agree with that approach to the revelation of scriptures through study, but not with the conclusion you have reached in this particular study.

God bless

Candice

If what I were saying were not true about this study, you wouldn't have needed to ask the question in the first place, and even then someone would have given you an actual concrete answer. This demonstrates that there just is not enough light to provide a definitive, solid answer.

Well, I disagree with that. We ask questions to provoke discussion, to understand the Word better, to glean insight from our fellow believers. Asking a question doesn't imply there is no clear solid answer to be given. It just means it is a topic I had not yet explored in depth.

There are topics for which I see clearly where another doesn't. There are topics where they see clearly and yet I don't.

The problem I have with this, is that we don't want to frighten people away from biblical discussion. We can't demand someone comes to the question table with a solution already in hand. There must be a process by which someone is allowed to ask a question, and together determine from scripture whether an interpretation /analogy is biblical or not.

[enoob57]

Steven,

I believe it has been demonstrated that the analogy of the gentile nations to the sea is more than just a plausibility. Did you read Lekh's post?

Yes

As for the 'wait upon Me and see' itch cream... well, we are told to study the Word, and we are also specifically told that those who read and understand the revelation of Jesus are blessed.

Whoa... I am not putting down the Word or the futures it speaks of! Just that there are some really bizarre interpretations that doesn't even line up with the rest of Scripture as to who God is! This is my reference to the cheese sliding cracker comment... not people who are interested in end time events! When it comes to understanding prophecies and the daily do, I will focus on the relationship of obedience because He makes it clear there and there remains no guess work! There are numerous and varied interpretations on any given subject, because I do not believe that I am all that, so I accept that which is known and if there becomes a fork in possibilities and two opposing views both come from good Bible scholars and doctrinal correct schools of thought and training and lives that witnesses their love for God. I will sit there at that split and wait upon The Holy Spirit to further my understanding. It is no shame to me to wait upon the Lord and to say I do not know! One says this but another that! So here I sit in peace knowing one day I will be given the answer and it will be solid as the ground beneath feet which once also was of the prophetical Word of God when He first formed His lips to say "Let there be". And the Angels all witnessed creative act and said what is that and another angel said it must be stuff? There are so many wonders... so many! I would rather not have an understanding than to have a wrong one! But that is just me!

Now that isn't to say that people go overboard and read into things that aren't there. They do. But the measuring stick is the Word, and these analogies need to be measured against that Word.

We see the same on this!

So let me ask another way. What do you do with the 'river of life' in Rev 22? Do you see it as physical-literal, or metaphoric? And if you see it as metaphoric, please explain your system of interpretation that does not then allow for other passages describing the new earth or the new Jerusalem as metaphoric.

Well I am little cautious of any understanding of the spiritual and physical substance in the New Heaven and New Earth! Gold that you can see through ... I don't know how or what.... How can you have a pearl that big and no sea in which to grow it? So nothing is impossible to God and now were really in deep water with this a finishing stroke

1 Cor 2:9

9 But as it is written:

"Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,

Nor have entered into the heart of man

The things which God has prepared for those who love Him."

NKJV

no getting around this one (no body knows that which awaits us) but to muse and meditate on the wonders are a pleasure and deepens my awe in Our Father and Son by the witness of The Holy Spirit within! If we can't even consider all of what we know now in His creative work here then the New stuff could be so radically different ....

Love Steven