Shin Bet Agent Breaks Cover in US for 'Son of Hamas'

[nebula]

You are making no sense whatsoever Axx.

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Jun 30 2010, 10:08 AM)

You have basically accused him of exploiting his faith and his former years working with Shin Bet. You did so not on the basis of fact, but on the basis of what you "think."

By definition...he did exploit his story. Maybe you could explain how he didn't. I think his story is great...I think he is a fascinating person who is a hero. I don't think he walks on water and and I don't have some crazy need to believe everything he says is 100% accurate. He is selling books and he is telling a sensational story in an exaggerated way...and even his many supporters admit that publicly. If you don't know that then maybe you don't know as much about him as you think. I think the sensational way he 'exploited' this deportation story is evidence that is true.

What sensationalism??? He talked it up on his blog. That is hardly sensationalism. Had he painted himself as a 007 and given himself superhero qualities, then you would have a point. So far, all you can say is that you "think" it was sensationalist. Simply relating what he did is not sensationalism, at least not to thinking people.

QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Jun 30 2010, 10:08 AM)

Told me so in terms of.... what?

What grandstanding?? What hype? Very few new agencies reported on this. Not even most Christian news agencies. It is not like this has been a front-page drama like Joran Vandersloot or whoever. I fail to see how you can make this out to be some major, hyped up story, when the coverage was minimal if at all.

Told everyone so...actually...that this was a non-story and that there was no chance he would be deported.

Yeah, you sure told us. Actually, you were wrong. There was a real chance he could have been deported otherwise there would not have been a hearing in the first place.

This would have been a complete non-story if he hadn't made it one. I never said it was a major story...but he still overhyped it, got international attention, and did multiple interviews on national tv saying he was afraid for his life (which, btw, flies in the face of his earlier claims that he was so experienced as a spy that he could live in his hometown in Palestine...lol.) drama, drama, drama.

I fail to see the drama. It was a story that got little to no coverage in the mainstream media. It was never hyped up the way you want to paint it. You really don't have any substance to your claims.

Writing a book or writing in a blog about his experience is not "hype" or sensationalism or drama. Not by any normal standard of measuring hypes.

Of course it wasn't front page drama...lol! Why would it be?

Which is why it is not the hyped up story you keep trying to make it out to be.

QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Jun 30 2010, 10:08 AM)

Not very many people really cared about his predicament and the only interest YOU had in it was discrediting him. Had he not co-authored book, would you have even taken the time to post your rants about his grandstanding and perceived ulterior motives to "promote himself?"

How have I discredited him?

When you said the following:

QUOTE (Axxman @ Jun 1 2010, 02:10 PM)

Isn't it possible that this guy isn't who he claims to be. Yeah, he is the son of a Hamas founder...yeah, he gave some info to Shin Bet...yes, he claim to be a Christian. But really there is no way to verify all this alleged intel that he provides, and the things he was allegedly involved with. The Shin Bet thinks he exaggerates. Maybe he isn't the guy he claims to be.

QUOTE (Axxman @ Jun 3 2010, 05:35 PM)

If this guy was a high value asset he would be treated like it. This guy is more like a shrewed businessman and self-promoter...and I suspect this recent uproar, caused completely by himself on his own blog, is more of the same.

So far, everything you have said on this thread basically treats him as being less than genuine and basically dishonest.

Of course I wouldn't post anything about him if people weren't so susceptible to believe every word that drops out of his mouth as if it were gold.

Oh so since we didn't see him the way you do, we are all just a bunch of naive, gullible fools... And it was up to you to set us straight because you know it all and are the end-all, be-all of every subject you chose to address.

You provided nothing more than your baseless opinion that he was something other than he claimed. I could understand your point if you had actual evidence, but you had none. You have provided no reason to disbelieve him.

Just like all of you believed he was on the verge of deportation and death...lol. Seriously! What gave you that impression? Oh, thats right...he did.

He very well could have been. The fact that the government ruled in his favor does not change that fact. Had he been deported, he would have been murdered.

In the meantime, those more logical and not so moved by sensationalism, believed that everything would play out exactly as it did...a 15 minute hearing with ZERO opposition from the gov't in giving this man asylum in the United States.

Why is believing that it could have turned out differently illogical? It could have turned out differently and he could have been deported. I am glad it didn't turn out that way, but you have a hollow victory no matter how you try to spin it.

The fact remains that you basically called a brother who converted from Islam a liar through your comments above, and I frankly think that your REAL angst with him is that he contradicts your misinformation about Islam. While you defend Islam like its an 90 year-old grandmother, he tells the truth about how evil and bloodthirsty Islam is. If you were honest about it, THAT is the beef you really have. It has nothing do with his book or blog.

QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Jun 30 2010, 10:08 AM)

Yes, but that does not make it somehow unimportant. He was not making a routine visit to a parole officer. He could have just as easily been deported. The fact that it went so well is a testimony to the grace of God, not so much a vindication of anything you have said.

LOL...your still buying the hype. How could he "just as easily" have been deported? How was that gonna happen exactly? Was it the ZERO witnesses testimony? Was it the ZERO gov't objections? Was it the evidence against him provided during the lengthy 15 minute routine, legally required, hearing?

What if the government did have witnesses, and what if they did have objections? Not knowing those facts beforehand makes it impossible to know for sure what was going to happen. The fact that it happened as smoothly as it did is good, but you could have just as easily have been wrong. It was the hand of God at work, period.

I am glad it worked out and that you were right, but that is not a vindication of you or anything you said, as your other comments pretty much tell us what you think about him.

WHAT!?!?! I never said he was lying...

Pretty much, yeah you did. You pretty much tried to discredit everything about him, including his conversion.

[Guest]

Son of Hamas Founder Granted Asylum in U.S.

June 30, 2010 - 5:15 PM | by: Jonathan Hunt

Mosab Hassan was more shocked than anyone when a Department of Homeland Security official announced in immigration court today that government officials had changed their mind about him.

Yesterday they saw him as a "threat to U.S. national security." Today they say he's welcome to stay in the United States and become a citizen.

Why the change of heart? DHS officials won't say, but public pressure, Congressional support for Hassan and the word of an Israeli intelligence agent likely all played a part.

>>>>>()<<<<<

Thank You LORD Jesus

Praying!

[Bold Believer]

Makes one scratch their head. One day this guy is a threat to National Security, the next, "stay, you're welcome to become a citizen."

It just proves to me that the Obama Administration hasn't a clue about intelligence matters. This should have been handled discreetly and with a few phone calls.

[MorningGlory]

Makes one scratch their head. One day this guy is a threat to National Security, the next, "stay, you're welcome to become a citizen."

It just proves to me that the Obama Administration hasn't a clue about intelligence matters. This should have been handled discreetly and with a few phone calls.

All asylum seekers have to have a public hearing. The story was talked up by Mosab himself not the government. I don't think he was ever really considered a major threat but he was worried that he wouldn't be granted asylum and went proactive. I can't say that, if in his circumstances, I might not do the same.

[Axxman]

All asylum seekers have to have a public hearing. The story was talked up by Mosab himself not the government. I don't think he was ever really considered a major threat but he was worried that he wouldn't be granted asylum and went proactive. I can't say that, if in his circumstances, I might not do the same.

Totally agree MG. I would have pulled out all the stops. I don't blame the guy at all. That doesn't make any of his outlandish claims about being deported true...it just means he was willign to do or say anything to drum up support. He is really good at it and he has the resources so why not use them.

[Axxman]

Had he painted himself as a 007 and given himself superhero qualities, then you would have a point. So far, all you can say is that you "think" it was sensationalist.

Once again you are having a discussion about a subject that you clearly haven't researched. C'mon bro...at least do some research. He totally 007'd himself! This guy says all kinds of crazy stuff. Even some of his public supporters and people who are knowledgable on the workings of Israeli Intelligence say that he exaggerated and sensationalized his story...but they accept it because they know he's also trying to sell a book.

Which is why it is not the hyped up story you keep trying to make it out to be.

I said HE hyped up and sensationalized the story of his deportation. I never said it was the biggest story in America. If anything, all you are arguing is that he wasn't very good at drawing attention to his cause. I happen to disagree because I think he is very good at it. He is a very likeable and charismatic...plus his story (and situation) are fantastic. He had members of congress, major news commentaries, and international media attention because of his efforts. I'd say thats pretty successful.

So far, everything you have said on this thread basically treats him as being less than genuine and basically dishonest.

Eh...I think you just dislike me and want to paint everything I say in a negative way. I've given him plenty of credit (which you conveniently ignore) and haven't called him a liar.

You provided nothing more than your baseless opinion that he was something other than he claimed. I could understand your point if you had actual evidence, but you had none. You have provided no reason to disbelieve him.

Well lets make this easy then. You 100% believe that Shin Bet worked for Mosab? That they thought "this guy is a genius" and gave him the run of the place working for him under his direction? You also believe that Mosab is so experienced as a spy that he could return to his hometown in Palestine and live safely?

Since you seem so opposed to using logic to form opinions on these things...then I look forward to you providing "actual evidence" for believing Mosab Yousef's claims.

He very well could have been. The fact that the government ruled in his favor does not change that fact. Had he been deported, he would have been murdered.

Why is believing that it could have turned out differently illogical? It could have turned out differently and he could have been deported. I am glad it didn't turn out that way, but you have a hollow victory no matter how you try to spin it.

C'mon Mr "actual evidence"... There is/was NO evidence at all that this was anything more than a routine hearing required by law. There was NO evidence that the gov't at ANY level was out to get him. Name ONE branch of gov't, heck ONE person in gov't that came out against this guy publicly. NOT ONE!! LoL!

I feel like I just watched a game between an NFL team and a high school team and the scoreboard shows 100-0 just like any logically thinking person would expect...and your tellng me that just because the game was played that it could have turned out either way.

I frankly think that your REAL angst with him is that he contradicts your misinformation about Islam. While you defend Islam like its an 90 year-old grandmother, he tells the truth about how evil and bloodthirsty Islam is. If you were honest about it, THAT is the beef you really have. It has nothing do with his book or blog.

Again...you are misrepresenting my views. Your repeated attempts to lie about me and draw me into a fight are not working. So please stop trying.

QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Jun 30 2010, 10:08 AM)

WHAT!?!?! I never said he was lying...

Pretty much, yeah you did. You pretty much tried to discredit everything about him, including his conversion.

Again, not true. I merely said it was okay for the gov't to scrutinize anyone from the enemy claiming to be friendly...just like they did during the Cold War when being a communist defector was all the rage. Just because a former terrorist shows up claiming to be a pro-american christian doesn't mean we should just believe them...as you guys have said numerous times...extremist Islam teaches that it is okay to lie to your enemies. At the time when I had made those statements we were discussing the wild claims made by Mosab Yousef on his website that the gov't was out to get him and that he was going to be deported. All I said was that maybe the gov't knows something we don't about his claims to be a good guy. As it turns out, the reason for ANY confusion was Mosab himself, as the gov't clearly wasn't out to get him as he had claimed.

[Axxman]

You are making no sense whatsoever Axx.

Of course...because accepting my explanation would mean accepting that I wasn't attacking or judging him or his salvation.

Those comments from the other thread were made after reading a blog by Mosab claiming that the gov't was out to get him. I was merely saying that maybe the gov't knew something we didn't and that we should look closely at anyone who claims to be a former terrorist and suddenly wants to be friends. The fact is, the gov't wasn't out to get him and that he wasn't the threat that he was pretending the gov't thought he was. At worst I am guilty for thinking its okay for the gov't to scrutinize former terrorists.

I made it clear in that other thread that I was not calling him a liar or judging his salvation...but you chose to ignore that because it undermined the impression you were trying to shape of my comments.

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Jun 30 2010, 01:43 PM)

Had he painted himself as a 007 and given himself superhero qualities, then you would have a point. So far, all you can say is that you "think" it was sensationalist.

Once again you are having a discussion about a subject that you clearly haven't researched. C'mon bro...at least do some research. He totally 007'd himself! This guy says all kinds of crazy stuff. Even some of his public supporters and people who are knowledgable on the workings of Israeli Intelligence say that he exaggerated and sensationalized his story...but they accept it because they know he's also trying to sell a book.

Really??? Crazy stuff?? Like what?

QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Jun 30 2010, 01:43 PM)

Which is why it is not the hyped up story you keep trying to make it out to be.

I said HE hyped up and sensationalized the story of his deportation. I never said it was the biggest story in America. If anything, all you are arguing is that he wasn't very good at drawing attention to his cause. I happen to disagree because I think he is very good at it. He is a very likeable and charismatic...plus his story (and situation) are fantastic. He had members of congress, major news commentaries, and international media attention because of his efforts. I'd say thats pretty successful.

Which is why it was hardly covered or mentioned on any mainstream news media. You have an odd concept of what is hyped. In last weeks, I have seen about three mentions of it in the mainstream media and about as many mentions in Christian media.

QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Jun 30 2010, 01:43 PM)

So far, everything you have said on this thread basically treats him as being less than genuine and basically dishonest.

Eh...I think you just dislike me and want to paint everything I say in a negative way. I've given him plenty of credit (which you conveniently ignore) and haven't called him a liar.

Whether I like you or not is independent of the fact that you have basically accused him of being less than genuine and I have provided quotes from you to that end.

Well lets make this easy then. You 100% believe that Shin Bet worked for Mosab?

Everything I have read never attributes Yousef as claiming that Shin Bet worked for him. I have even watched the interview with Sean Hannity and he never claims to have Shin Bet working for him. No site that mentions him indicates that he Shin Bet was working for him.

That they thought "this guy is a genius" and gave him the run of the place working for him under his direction?

Another claim that I cannot find any basis for. Where are you getting this info?

You also believe that Mosab is so experienced as a spy that he could return to his hometown in Palestine and live safely?

Not even Yousef believed that; hence the reason why he did not want to be deported.

QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Jun 30 2010, 01:43 PM)

I frankly think that your REAL angst with him is that he contradicts your misinformation about Islam. While you defend Islam like its an 90 year-old grandmother, he tells the truth about how evil and bloodthirsty Islam is. If you were honest about it, THAT is the beef you really have. It has nothing do with his book or blog.

Again...you are misrepresenting my views. Your repeated attempts to lie about me and draw me into a fight are not working. So please stop trying.

I am not trying draw you into anything. You are already debating me. I am just being more honest about the motives behind your rants about this guy.

QUOTE

Pretty much, yeah you did. You pretty much tried to discredit everything about him, including his conversion.

Again, not true. I merely said it was okay for the gov't to scrutinize anyone from the enemy claiming to be friendly...just like they did during the Cold War when being a communist defector was all the rage.

You have basically accredited everything about him to dihonesty, exaggeration and less than honest tactics. You have called everything about him into question.

as you guys have said numerous times...extremist Islam teaches that it is okay to lie to your enemies.

but their allowance of deception does not allow counter-terrorism activity. They don't go so far as trying actually undermine the agenda of the terror organizations that are supporting them. Their deception only goes so far as to blend in with the overall culture and to appear as "American" as possible. Yousef was going much, much farther than that.

I feel like I just watched a game between an NFL team and a high school team and the scoreboard shows 100-0 just like any logically thinking person would expect...and your tellng me that just because the game was played that it could have turned out either way.

A logically thinking and intelligent person would have been able to come up with a more valid analogy. This is not at all analagous to a football game. I am saying that the goverment could just as easily had evidence and witnesses and the whole thing could have gone quite differently. I am glad that it didn't. Just because others were thinking that it could have gone differently does not mean they were not being logical.

[nebula]

You are making no sense whatsoever Axx.

Of course...because accepting my explanation would mean accepting that I wasn't attacking or judging him or his salvation.

Those comments from the other thread were made after reading a blog by Mosab claiming that the gov't was out to get him. I was merely saying that maybe the gov't knew something we didn't and that we should look closely at anyone who claims to be a former terrorist and suddenly wants to be friends. The fact is, the gov't wasn't out to get him and that he wasn't the threat that he was pretending the gov't thought he was. At worst I am guilty for thinking its okay for the gov't to scrutinize former terrorists.

I made it clear in that other thread that I was not calling him a liar or judging his salvation...but you chose to ignore that because it undermined the impression you were trying to shape of my comments.

No Axx, I read your statements for what they said.

What is making no sense to me is that you say something that gives one impression, and then you say something else that gives another impression.

That is what is confusing me.

And if you are judging Musad's motives with the inaccuracy you are judging mine, then I can conclude that you are wrong.