ORIGINAL SIN

[Willow]

My question was, are we born with the guilt of sin, before we ever commit any?

[stevehut]

So What do you think now Steve ? After reading Romans 5

See above, Bob. I've made several posts today.

[tako]

HI, Original sin? GUILT OF SIN? Well, I think it's more like SIN NATURE after the fall in the garden, Remedy? hmmm, Well first of all we have to live with this SIN NATURE and it will be a constant battle like paul said, This Warring within our flesh, and only the HOLY SPIRIT can help us with this battle within us fighting against OUR SIN NATURE we cannot win against our SIN NATURE by philosophy..........TAKO

[BodhiDharma]

I don't see the words "original sin" once in the bible. It was invented by early theologans, namely saint thomas aquinas. It is just a guilt trip placed on us, namely by the catholic church. I don't believe in getting me to believe through guilt, I don't believe in it.

[BobTriez]

So What do you think now Steve ?

[Adstar]

My question was, are we born with the guilt of sin, before we ever commit any?

No.

But all will sin when they come to the knowledge of Good and Evil. Babies do not have that knowledge, every man has that knowledge so all men have sinned and fallen short and need grace through the Messiah Jesus.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[serotta]

Just as through one man's disobedience mane people were made sinners

Not sure I understand...

What is your understanding of the definition of a sinner? This might sound like a stupid q, but I have a reason for it...

First that was a mispelling, sorry; "mane" should be many. In simplest terms, a sinner is "one who sins". Do I believe that from the moment of conception we are burdened with the guilt of Adam's choice? Yes and no . In the strictest definition of guilt, no, I do not believe that God holds us personally accountable for that one particular sin. But in the broader sense, yes we are guilty from the moment of conception since, because of Adam's choice, we are created with a propensity to sin. I am more comfortable with the idea of "sin nature" than with "original sin", but that sin nature is a direct result of the original sin. We cannot help but sin. Do infants who die go to hell because they have not asked for forgiveness of the "original sin"? No. Does this all make sense?

[GoodSamaritan]

I don't see the words "original sin" once in the bible. It was invented by early theologans, namely saint thomas aquinas.

IMO, this cannot be your only standard for reading the Bible and for your ensuing belief. Look for CONCEPTS and bonafide teachings, not esoteric names for those teachings, for as doctrine develops and is defined, we see it also named. So are we to understand that you also do not believe in the Trinity? How about the Holy Spirit being God? How about the 'Incarnation'? The word 'Christianity' is not in Scripture either, so do you not believe in IT as well? Heck, even the word 'Bible' is not in the Bible. See my point? If you obsess over TITLES and not actual CONCEPTS/TEACHINGS written about, you miss key points of the Christian faith.

St. Thomas did not 'invent' Original Sin, the concept. Jews and Christians alike taught and believed in this principle long before Aquinas gave it the name. If you look at the Scripture, St. Paul was teaching it in the first century in his Epistles. Augustine himself references 11 separate testimonies of the early Christians regarding this concept in his own writings--does this sound like HE himself invented this?

I've seen the arguments made for Original Sin not being Scriptural, Historical, or Reasonable. They either argue from silence or just don't quite understand the full implications of Original Sin, IMO.

GS

[GoodSamaritan]

But all will sin when they come to the knowledge of Good and Evil. Babies do not have that knowledge, every man has that knowledge so all men have sinned and fallen short and need grace through the Messiah Jesus.

What about mentally retarded? Physiologically, they are men but mentally, they may still be children--can they sin? Show us in Scripture where they can or cannot.

It's important to make the distinction between the two types of sin talked about in Scripture--personal sin and Original Sin. They are linked but are VERY different.

GS

[dgolvach]

I can't remember ever being without sin.

Dan....