On no, not another threadon Acts 2:38!

[Rick-Parker]

Parker1 wrote = "Salvation comes the moment one realizes that they are a sinner and that they need a savior, realizing that Jesus Christ gives that salvation if they will simply accept it and accepting Him as their Savior. There is no other thing one must do to be saved."

Where is this found in the bible? I need some scripture.

Acts 2:38 means what it says. To be saved you must repent and be baptized. The same word "for (Greek - a

[traveller]

If one is already forgiven, where is the need to repent?

My thoughts exactly. Hence, my bewilderment.

Steve - you doing research for another book?

[Guest]

Parker1 wrote = "Salvation comes the moment one realizes that they are a sinner and that they need a savior, realizing that Jesus Christ gives that salvation if they will simply accept it and accepting Him as their Savior. There is no other thing one must do to be saved."

Where is this found in the bible? I need some scripture.

Acts 2:38 means what it says. To be saved you must repent and be baptized. The same word "for (Greek - a

[Rick-Parker]

Repentance brings with it a relationship with Jesus Christ. Without it, you may be saved, but God will not come close to you; you cannot have a relationship with Him.

Mind telling me how that works?

Sure. God cannot look upon sin, so how can you have a relationship with Him when you are living in sin? If you tick your father off, you are still his son/daughter but he doesn't interact with you. When you get right with him, then he starts interacting with you again. Just like it never happened. It's the same with God. Pretty simple to me.

So repentance has nothing whatsoever to do with salvation?

Don't put words in my mouth. I'm only talking about those who are already saved. You would see that if you had read what I wrote without your prejudgment.

[Guest man]

Repentance brings with it a relationship with Jesus Christ. Without it, you may be saved, but God will not come close to you; you cannot have a relationship with Him.

Mind telling me how that works?

Sure. God cannot look upon sin, so how can you have a relationship with Him when you are living in sin? If you tick your father off, you are still his son/daughter but he doesn't interact with you. When you get right with him, then he starts interacting with you again. Just like it never happened. It's the same with God. Pretty simple to me.

So repentance has nothing whatsoever to do with salvation?

Don't put words in my mouth. I'm only talking about those who are already saved. You would see that if you had read what I wrote without your prejudgment.

I'm not putting words in your mouth.

You said one doesn't have to have a relationship with God in order to be saved. I don't see how that's possible.

[JesusisGod2]

To understand Acts 10 you have to look at Acts 11:12-18:

"12"The Spirit told me to go with them without misgivings These six brethren also went with me and we entered the man's house. 13"And he reported to us how he had seen the angel standing in his house, and saying, 'Send to Joppa and have Simon, who is also called Peter, brought here; 14and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household 15"And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning."

Vs 14 clearly says that "words" will be spoken by which salvation would come. It did not say the Holy Ghost would save anyone. It said "words." In Acts 10:44 the HG fell while Peter was still speaking. This is also recounted in v 15 above. The HG fell as Peter "began to speak." This means he was not done with the "words" by which they would be saved.

"16"And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.' 17"Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God's way?" 18When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life."

Vs 18 is the key. The HG falling on the Gentiles was an irrefutable sign that salvation was for the Gentiles as well as the Jews. The HG falling on them did not save them. They had to be baptized (Acts 10:47-48) for that to occur. Once Peter witnessed the HG fall on them he knew he could not deny them entrance to the Kingdom. They were acceptable subjects for baptism. This all stems back to Acts 2:39 where Peter says "For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself." Peter, under the HG influence, says that salvation is for all but did not follow what he had said. Peter clearly did not understand what he said under the influence of the HG. Peter wasn't practicing it. God had to show him through a miracle vision in Acts 10:10-16 that salvation was for everyone. The falling of the HG in this manner happened 3 times. 1st in Acts 2. This signified that salvation had come the Jews. 2nd in Acts 8 for the Samaritans who practiced a deviant form of Judaism. Third in Acts 10 for the Gentiles. These occasions signified that the subjects were acceptable candidates for salvation. The HG falling on them did not mean they were saved.

Running Gator wrote - "Would the person that accepts Jesus and is killed on his way to the church to be baptized is go to hell?" - Again, these far fetched examples. I have never witnessed this to happen. Baptism can be done anywhere. All that is needed is enough water. Are any of you in this situation now?

also wrote - "When does the Holy Spirit come upon a believer, before or after salvation?" - Neither. It all occurs at the same time.

I never said that the Holy Spirit saved them; I asked if the Holy Spirit came upon a person before or after salvation.

and I agree that the passage you gave holds the key...Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God's way

When does the Spirit come? After, according to the passage you gave.

Neither. It all occurs at the same time

if that is the case, then they were saved prior to salvation.

Running Gator wrote - "Would the person that accepts Jesus and is killed on his way to the church to be baptized is go to hell?" - Again, these far fetched examples. I have never witnessed this to happen. Baptism can be done anywhere. All that is needed is enough water. Are any of you in this situation now?

far fetched examples or not, what is your answer to the question? is the person saved or lost?

as far as you have never witnessed this to happen, there are great many things I am sure you have not seen first hand that are still real.

This really inst that far fetched (Well maybe the getting hit by a car is) but there are many people who receive Christ on their deathbed without receiving water baptism

[JesusisGod2]

Vs 14 clearly says that "words" will be spoken by which salvation would come. It did not say the Holy Ghost would save anyone.

The Holy Spirit is the agent of salvation. The Holy Spirit draws us to Christ and places us in Chrsit and the Holy Spirit fulfills the righteousness of the law within us. Any time that salvation takes place, it is the Holy Spirit who serves as the agent of salvation.

The HG falling on the Gentiles was an irrefutable sign that salvation was for the Gentiles as well as the Jews. The HG falling on them did not save them.

Actually, it exactly means that the Holy Spirit saved them. You are trying to parse words, but the Holy Spirit does not fall on unbelievers. He falls or descends upon those who believe.

Running Gator wrote - "Would the person that accepts Jesus and is killed on his way to the church to be baptized is go to hell?" - Again, these far fetched examples. I have never witnessed this to happen. Baptism can be done anywhere. All that is needed is enough water. Are any of you in this situation now?

It is not a far fetched example. What about someone who is in the hospital, near death and receives the gospel, but due to hooked up to machines and other things is unable to be taken to a baptismal or in any way immersed in water? What about someone who gets saved in an airplane but does not have access to water and the plane crashes and all of the people on board die? Those are real-life scenarios.

I would also posit, this: What about someone who was baptized in a Baptist church that does not believe baptism is necessary for salvation; does their baptism count, or does it have to be performed in a church expressly for the purpose of being saved?

Guess I replied too soon, seem Shiloh already brought my example to the boards, and far better than I.

[Rick-Parker]

Repentance brings with it a relationship with Jesus Christ. Without it, you may be saved, but God will not come close to you; you cannot have a relationship with Him.

Mind telling me how that works?

Sure. God cannot look upon sin, so how can you have a relationship with Him when you are living in sin? If you tick your father off, you are still his son/daughter but he doesn't interact with you. When you get right with him, then he starts interacting with you again. Just like it never happened. It's the same with God. Pretty simple to me.

So repentance has nothing whatsoever to do with salvation?

Don't put words in my mouth. I'm only talking about those who are already saved. You would see that if you had read what I wrote without your prejudgment.

I'm not putting words in your mouth.

You said one doesn't have to have a relationship with God in order to be saved. I don't see how that's possible.

Oh well. Sorry if it's too deep for you. I thought/believe my explanation is sufficient.

[Rick-Parker]

Think of the prodigal son. He didn't have a relationship with his father while he was gone, but he was still part of the family. It's not that difficult to understand. Try a little reason instead of looking for an argument. Luke 15:11-32

[Guest man]

Think of the prodigal son. He didn't have a relationship with his father while he was gone, but he was still part of the family. It's not that difficult to understand. Try a little reason instead of looking for an argument. Luke 15:11-32

What would happen if the prodigal son didn't return? In the parable he did, but in real life, what happens if one choses not to have a relationship with God?