Burn a Qu'ran Day...

[nebula]

This was really much ado about nothing.

Not really. Things were learned through it.

[traveller]

This was really much ado about nothing.

Not really. Things were learned through it.

True. I know I learned a lot.

KatyAnn, thank you for looking that up! Well done.

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

While we are clothed in Christ's righteousness are we still not born again day by day as we work and pray to purify ourselves of all sin?

I haven't done any purifying, have you?

By spiritual baptism I mean the baptism of the Holy Spirit; the baptism of Jesus. John the baptist talked of this in John 1:33

"And I did not know Him nor recognize Him, but He Who sent me to baptize in (with) water said to me, Upon Him Whom you shall see the Spirit descend and remain, that One is He Who baptizes with the Holy Spirit."

Great, how do we receive this and how are we born again? Can a man have salvation thrust upon him?

This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance (and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe. - 1 Timothy 4:9-10

That's a great piece of scripture, but have negated the very fact that it implies that we have to place our Hope in the living God, whom is the Savior of all mankind. Can a man who lives his life opposed to and refusing to receive the Living God place his Hope in Him?

He is in fact the Saviour of all mankind;

Joh 3:16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Joh 3:17

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Joh 3:18

He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

That doesn't negate the fact that those who do not believe on Him, according to God's Word, are not in fact condemned.

Let's go back to Abraham for a minute since you negelected to comment on him.

I said and the Word say's that He was Justified by faith in this Gospel. Longing to see the day of Christ, he saw it by faith, and therefore rejoiced.

There was an action though that accompanied that faith. It wasn't thrust upon him, but upon hearing the Word of God Abraham was compelled to take action;

Heb 11:8

By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed to go out unto a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

Heb 11:9

By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

Heb 11:10

For he looked for a city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

The Gospel that you are preaching is received without any evidence of it being received. I asked you to please show me a situation in scripture where we see a non believer receiving Salvation without accepting God's Word and in league with your Doctrine.

Your Doctrine is anethema to the Bible and the Gospel as I have received it. Unless you can show me it at action scripturally in the non believers life unto salvation.

Thanks for your patience.

peace,

Dave

[ayin jade]

No. There is none righteous, not one. However, through spiritual baptism God claims us as his children and we are clothed in His righteousness. My quote above has nothing to do with "works" and I did not mean to imply such. Christ calls us to be perfect just as our heavenly father is perfect. And as God is the perfect father, He will work with (purify) His children (all of us) until they have grown and matured into righteousness.

And as God is the perfect father, He will work with (purify) His children (all of us) until they have grown and matured into righteousness.

No where in the Bible are non believers, the unrighteosu and unfaithful here on earth, called the children of God , they are called the sons of men, and Jesus in fact states that we must be born again to enter the Kingdom of heaven.

To add my meager 2 cents, and to address a personal pet peeve.

The lost are not the children of God. The bible is clear.

John 1:12-13

But as many as received Him, He gave to them authority to become the children of God, to those who believe on His name, who were born, not of bloods, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but were born of God.

[Matthitjah]

No. There is none righteous, not one. However, through spiritual baptism God claims us as his children and we are clothed in His righteousness. My quote above has nothing to do with "works" and I did not mean to imply such. Christ calls us to be perfect just as our heavenly father is perfect. And as God is the perfect father, He will work with (purify) His children (all of us) until they have grown and matured into righteousness.

And as God is the perfect father, He will work with (purify) His children (all of us) until they have grown and matured into righteousness.

No where in the Bible are non believers, the unrighteosu and unfaithful here on earth, called the children of God , they are called the sons of men, and Jesus in fact states that we must be born again to enter the Kingdom of heaven.

To add my meager 2 cents, and to address a personal pet peeve.

The lost are not the children of God. The bible is clear.

John 1:12-13

But as many as received Him, He gave to them authority to become the children of God, to those who believe on His name, who were born, not of bloods, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but were born of God.

You are exactly correct sister.

[fromIslam2Christ]

I believe that God will work with everyone who is not righteous until they have grown and matured into heavenly perfection.

My belief is simply that all will eventually receive salvation. All else is against the God I know.

This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance (and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe. - 1 Timothy 4:9-10

Please forgive my ignorance, but I have a question: based on this doctrine above, then of what use was the coming, death, and ressurrection of Christ?

Why would we need Jesus Christ to come in the flesh if salvation is already universal and attainable as people "grow and mature into heavenly perfection"?

What does it mean to Christian universalists when Jesus says that no one goes through the Father but through Him?

[A Disciple]

Got carried away there - please ignore.

A Disciple

Edited August 7, 2010 by A Disciple

[MorningGlory]

My belief is simply that all will eventually receive salvation. All else is against the God I know.

D-9, I pray that you will continue to read the Bible. I don't know where you have gotten instruction but, wherever that was, please move on and learn what our Lord really taught. He never taught that everyone would receive salvation.

Luke 13:23-24 - Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?" He said to them, "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to.

A good place to start is whatdoesthebiblesay.com.

[MorningGlory]

I think this topic has run it's course so I am closing it now. A lot of good comments have been posted, in fact...everyone who posted added to the discussion. I began this topic convinced that burning Qu'rans was a good idea and totally changed my mind because of well thought out comments by all of you. It's the 'iron sharpens iron' thing.