Nearness of the Rapture

[1Mind1Spirit]

No lofty looks here, Joe.

Remember me, God's robot?

It is God who works through me to do His will.

And I hope He keeps me in Him till I leave this body.

[Bible2]

FresnoJoe said:

For His

I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake. 1 John 2:12

Amen.

But only the past sins of saved people are forgiven (Romans 3:25), as in only those sins which have been repented from and confessed to God (1 John 1:9). Jesus' sacrificial blood doesn't remit unrepentant sin (Hebrews 10:26-29). So saved people can in the end lose their salvation if they wrongly employ their will to commit sin without repentance (Hebrews 10:26-29, 1 Corinthians 9:27, Matthew 24:48-51, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, 2 Peter 2:20-22, Romans 8:13, 1 John 5:16, James 5:19-20, Hebrews 5:9).

FresnoJoe said:

Name's Sake

And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. Revelation 22:3-4

Amen.

But note that for God's servants to obtain the ultimate salvation of Revelation 22:3-4, and not ultimately lose their salvation because of unrepentant laziness and wickedness (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a, Matthew 24:48-51), they must actually obey all of God's New Covenant/New Testament commandments (Revelation 22:14, Matthew 7:21, Hebrews 5:9), they must actually perform good works unto the end (Revelation 2:5, Revelation 3:2, Revelation 2:26, Romans 2:6-8, James 2:24, Philippians 2:12, 2 Corinthians 5:9, 2 Peter 1:10-11, Hebrews 6:10-12, Philippians 3:11-14).

FresnoJoe said:

Call

And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. Joel 2:32

Amen.

But Joel 2:32 (Romans 10:13) doesn't mean that salvation can't be lost in the end for committing apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6, 2 Timothy 2:12), or for failing to do good works (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a, Romans 2:6-8), or for committing unrepentant sin (Hebrews 10:26-29, 1 Corinthians 9:27, Matthew 24:48-51).

FresnoJoe said:

The Humbled Know

Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: 1 Peter 5:6

Amen.

Obedient Christians must stay so humble that they never give themselves any credit (Luke 17:10).

But at the judgment of the church, at the second coming, Jesus will give them some credit (Matthew 25:21).

FresnoJoe said:

In Jesus Alone Is Salvation

I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help.

My help cometh from the LORD, which made heaven and earth.

He will not suffer thy foot to be moved: he that keepeth thee will not slumber. Psalms 121:1-3

"None are so safe as those whom God keeps; none so much in danger as the self secure." - Charles Spurgeon

Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry. 1 Corinthians 10:12-14

And In Jesus Alone Is Assurance

The LORD is thy keeper: the LORD is thy shade upon thy right hand.

The sun shall not smite thee by day, nor the moon by night.

The LORD shall preserve thee from all evil: he shall preserve thy soul.

The LORD shall preserve thy going out and thy coming in from this time forth, and even for evermore. Psalms 121:5-8

"Those must needs be well kept that have the Lord for their keeper." - Matthew Henry

Amen.

But Psalms 121:3,7,8 and 1 Corinthians 10:13 don't mean OSAS, because initially saved people can wrongly employ their will to return to unrepentant sin, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 10:26-29, 1 Corinthians 9:27, Matthew 24:48-51, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, 2 Peter 2:20-22, Romans 8:13, 1 John 5:16, James 5:19-20).

For Jesus/God doesn't take away the free will of saved people, turning them into robots, or into macabre flesh puppets, mere marionettes whose strings God pulls to make them dance across the stage. Thank God that, instead, he leaves all saved people as his real children with free wills. And because he leaves them with free wills, they themselves have to choose each and every day for the rest of their lives to deny themselves, to take up their crosses themselves, and to continue to follow Jesus (Luke 9:23) unto the end. But there's no assurance that they will choose to do that (Luke 8:13, Matthew 24:48-51, Matthew 25:26,30).

FresnoJoe said:

And even to your old age I am he; and even to hoar hairs will I carry you: I have made, and I will bear; even I will carry, and will deliver you. Isaiah 46:4

For Jesus Saves

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. John 6:47

Amen.

But Isaiah 46:4 shouldn't be interpreted as an unconditional promise, because it must be qualified by other verses in the Bible (Isaiah 28:9-10, 1 Corinthians 2:13, 2 Timothy 3:16, Matthew 4:4): Saved people retaining the salvation of John 6:47 unto the end (cf. Isaiah 46:4) will be conditional upon their continued belief (Hebrews 3:6,14, Colossians 1:23, Hebrews 6:4-8), their continued good works and obedience (Romans 2:6-8, Matthew 7:21, Matthew 25:26,30), and their continued repentance from every sin that they might commit unto the end (Hebrews 10:26-29, Matthew 24:48-51, 1 Corinthians 9:27).

FresnoJoe said:

We Don't

He that is of a proud heart stirreth up strife: but he that putteth his trust in the LORD shall be made fat.

He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered. Proverbs 28:25-26

Amen.

Regarding Proverbs 28:25, as was pointed out earlier, obedient Christians must stay so humble that they never give themselves any credit (Luke 17:10). But at the judgment of the church, at the second coming, Jesus will give them some credit (Matthew 25:21).

Regarding Proverbs 28:26, obedient Christians don't trust in their own hearts, for they know that apart from Jesus their hearts are desperately wicked (Jeremiah 17:9) and can't do any good work (Romans 3:12, John 15:5b).

FresnoJoe said:

Yes?

Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: Philippians 1:6

Amen.

Philippians 1:6 does mean that God will complete the work he has begun in saved people. But other passages show that he will do this only if they continue to cooperate with him and work along with him, and don't wrongly employ their will to, for example, become utterly lazy without repentance, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a, Romans 2:6-8, James 2:24, Hebrews 5:9, Revelation 22:14, Philippians 2:12, 2 Corinthians 5:9, 2 Peter 1:10-11, Hebrews 6:10-12, Philippians 3:11-14, Colossians 1:29, 1 Corinthians 3:9).

For, as was pointed out earlier, God doesn't turn saved people into robots.

FresnoJoe said:

No?

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 1 Corinthians 4:3-6 [sic, should be 2 Corinthians 4:3-6]

Amen.

But 2 Corinthians 4:3-6 is referring to the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4), not to the mistaken idea of OSAS.

FresnoJoe said:

Trust

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Romans 5:1-2

Amen.

But note that Hebrews 10:26-29 shows that God himself can end up damning people who had actually been sanctified by Jesus' sacrificial blood (Hebrews 10:29), which sanctification requires faith (Acts 26:18, Romans 3:25). Hebrews 10:26-29 is referring to people who after they get saved wrongly employ their will to commit any sin whatsoever without repentance (Hebrews 10:26).

By doing this, these saved people are unwittingly trampling on Jesus and his sacrificial blood and doing despite unto the Spirit of grace (Hebrews 10:29), turning the grace of God into lasciviousness (Jude 1:4), so that their ultimate fate will be worse than if they had never been saved at all (2 Peter 2:20-22).

(Continued)

Edited September 13, 2010 by Bible2

[Bible2]

(Continued)

FresnoJoe said:

Jesus Loves You True

And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. Romans 5:3-5

Amen.

But note that Romans 5:3-5 is referring to the true hope of the gospel (Colossians 1:23, Romans 8:23-25), not to the mistaken idea of OSAS.

FresnoJoe said:

Eternally True

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: John 11:25

Amen.

But, as was pointed out earlier, believers ultimately retaining their salvation will be conditional upon their continued belief (Hebrews 3:6,14, Colossians 1:23, Hebrews 6:4-8), their continued good works and obedience (Romans 2:6-8, Matthew 7:21, Matthew 25:26,30), and their continued repentance from every sin that they might commit unto the end (Hebrews 10:26-29, Matthew 24:48-51, 1 Corinthians 9:27).

FresnoJoe said:

Be Blessed Beloved Of The King

The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee. Jeremiah 31:3

Amen.

But saved people still need to be careful to keep themselves in the love of God (Jude 1:21) and continue in his goodness (Romans 11:22) by continuing in faithful obedience to him (John 14:21), if they don't want God to ultimately cut them off (Romans 11:22, John 15:2a) and cast them away (1 Corinthians 9:27, John 15:6).

FresnoJoe said:

Be Very Blessed

Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. Isaiah 1:18

Amen.

But, as was pointed out earlier, Hebrews 10:26-29 shows that God himself can end up damning people who had actually been sanctified by Jesus' sacrificial blood (Hebrews 10:29), which sanctification requires faith (Acts 26:18, Romans 3:25).

FresnoJoe said:

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Romans 11:29

Amen.

But Romans 11:29 means that God doesn't revoke his election of people (Romans 11:28). But the elect whom God has initially saved still have to diligently do the right things in order to make their calling and election sure, unto their ultimate salvation (2 Peter 1:10-11, Romans 2:6-8, Matthew 7:21, James 2:24, Philippians 2:12, 2 Corinthians 5:9, Revelation 22:14, Hebrews 5:9, Hebrews 6:10-12, Philippians 3:11-14, Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a).

Edited September 13, 2010 by Bible2

[Bible2]

Parker1 said:

No argument.

There was an ad hominem argument, questioning the character of a poster instead of addressing the scriptural points that he's made.

Parker1 said:

And you didn't answer the question.

The question was answered indirectly, so as to keep the discussion focused on what the scriptures teach:

Regarding living up to what the Bible requires of a Christian, it isn't difficult for a Christian to do that (1 John 5:3, Matthew 11:30). He can be assured of his present salvation if he believes the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and repents from his sins (1 John 3:6) and confesses them to God (1 John 1:9). And he can have the comfort that as a saved person he can never be separated from the love of God, so long as he loves God (Romans 8:28-39), which means actually obeying him (1 John 5:3, John 14:21-24). And no matter how many tests a saved person fails, even if he fails and commits sin 70 times 7 times in a single day (Matthew 18:22, Luke 17:4), so long as he sincerely repents from every sin and confesses it to God, he will be completely forgiven (1 John 1:9). He will only lose his salvation in the end if he wrongly employs his will to refuse to repent from his sins (Hebrews 10:26-29, 1 Corinthians 9:27, Matthew 24:48-51, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, 2 Peter 2:20-22, Romans 8:13, 1 John 5:16, James 5:19-20).

Edited September 13, 2010 by Bible2

[Guest]

.... not to the mistaken idea of OSAS....

Totally Agree Along With Disagreeing With The Sorry Philosophy Of Once Saved Never Sure

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Philippians 2:13

Folks Who Seem To Teach The Blood Of The Lamb Is Not Able To Keep The Little Ones

And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, Revelation 1:6

Ones Who Seem To Teach The LORD Is Not Able To Win His Bride's Heart

But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

I and my Father are one. John 10:26-30

Ones With Big Faith In Their Works But Apparent Little Faith In God's Grace And Power To Keep And To Sanctify

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. Jude 1:24-25

As For Me, I Only Have The Blood Of The Lamb

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 1 Peter 1:18-19

To Plead

And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. Luke 18:13

Poor Me So Not

>>>>>()<<<<<

FresnoJoe said:

Eternally True

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: John 11:25

Amen.

But, as was pointed out earlier, believers ultimately retaining their salvation will be conditional upon... their continued good works.... and obedience.... and their continued repentance from every sin.... that they might commit.... unto the end....

Believe

And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived. Numbers 21:9

Read The Holy Word And See Jesus And Believe And Be Blessed

If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. John 3:12-15

For My Hope Is In Nothing Less Than Jesus Christ And Him Crucified

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

And As For Boasting Of Self Made Righteousness

But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. Galatians 6:14

Brother, It's All Yours

Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:9

>>>>>()<<<<<

Jesus Saves

Sing unto the LORD, bless his name; shew forth his salvation from day to day. Psalms 96:11

Hallelujah! To The KING OF KINGS

Amen~!

[Arthur Durnan]

My wife opened up the Bible on Saturday morning. God guided her hand to Nehemiah 8:16-9:3. It speaks of the Feast of Tabernacles and the reading of the law. I think God is communicating the very nearness of the Rapture. Even if not this directly, he may be speaking of Ezekiel 37, the re-uniting of the house of Judah and the house of Israel, which precedes Ezekiel 38 & 39. Let us read the words of the Lord and do them; let us also confess our sins before the Lord. It may be he will be gracious and forgive our sins.

I truly believe the Coming of the Lord Jesus draws extremely nigh! 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 indeed.

[Rick-Parker]

Parker1 said:

No argument.

There was an ad hominem argument, questioning the character of a poster instead of addressing the scriptural points that he's made.

Parker1 said:

And you didn't answer the question.

The question was answered indirectly, so as to keep the discussion focused on what the scriptures teach:

Regarding living up to what the Bible requires of a Christian, it isn't difficult for a Christian to do that (1 John 5:3, Matthew 11:30). He can be assured of his present salvation if he believes the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and repents from his sins (1 John 3:6) and confesses them to God (1 John 1:9). And he can have the comfort that as a saved person he can never be separated from the love of God, so long as he loves God (Romans 8:28-39), which means actually obeying him (1 John 5:3, John 14:21-24). And no matter how many tests a saved person fails, even if he fails and commits sin 70 times 7 times in a single day (Matthew 18:22, Luke 17:4), so long as he sincerely repents from every sin and confesses it to God, he will be completely forgiven (1 John 1:9). He will only lose his salvation in the end if he wrongly employs his will to refuse to repent from his sins (Hebrews 10:26-29, 1 Corinthians 9:27, Matthew 24:48-51, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, 2 Peter 2:20-22, Romans 8:13, 1 John 5:16, James 5:19-20).

I just asked you if you are able to live what you preach, since you seem to think that everything has a "but" to it and that you know what that "but" is, more than anyone else. Well, do you walk the talk? That's my only question and has a "yes," "I sure try" or "no" answer.

[1Mind1Spirit]

If you are so sure then why is it the blessed Hope?

We can be sure that we are able to workout our salvation with fear and trembling.

[1Mind1Spirit]

Fear no longer binds us we may be assured that our works in Christ are no longer filthy rags.

Our works now are rightousness.

[Guest]

For It Is Either I Did It See So Johnny Be Good

For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. Matthew 23:4

Or God Did It

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast.

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:8-10

Trust Him

- - - - - - - -

Ever Wonder Who Gets The Glory

I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Isaiah 42:8

And Who Gets The Grace

And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies.

I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the LORD. Hosea 2:19-20

And Who Doesn't

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36

Jesus Saves

We Don't

>>>>>()<<<<<

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

And my soul shall be joyful in the LORD: it shall rejoice in his salvation.

All my bones shall say, LORD, who is like unto thee, which deliverest the poor from him that is too strong for him, yea, the poor and the needy from him that spoileth him? Psalms 35:9-10

Love, Your Brother Joe