Nearness of the Rapture

[Rick-Parker]

Also, the question is a Catch-22 trap. For answering "Yes" would open one up to the charge of the sin of boasting (2 Timothy 3:2, Romans 1:30, Luke 18:11-14). And answering "I sure try" or "No" would open one up to the charge of the sin of hypocrisy (1 Peter 2:1, Luke 6:42, James 3:17).

Or, answering "I sure try" or "No" could be seen as implying that it's difficult or impossible for Christians to perfectly obey everything that the Bible requires of them, which would contradict 1 John 5:3, Matthew 11:30, John 14:15,21, Matthew 5:48, Revelation 3:2, 2 Timothy 3:16-17, Colossians 1:28, Philippians 3:15, 1 Corinthians 2:6, 2 Corinthians 13:11.

Well, in my opinion, which doesn't mean much, you are "boasting" of your "knowledge" when you answer every post someone else posts with your "Amen. But..." I find it offensive, boorish and condescending. But again, it's just my opinion.

Obviously when one can't defend theirf argument with scripture they switch to personal attacks. This is how all OSAS arguments end-up. Your argument is not with Bible2 but with the scripture.

What? I have no argument that I put forward to defend. I asked a question which the respondent is doing the rope-a-dope to avoid giving an answer......I didn't attack anyone. I gave my opinion on how they post. Show me where I called anyone a name. So, don't attack OSAS because you have an opinion about me. It just shows where you are actually coming from.

[Guest]

It Was Always About Faith

And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith. Deuteronomy 32:20

And Never About Self

Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen. 1 John 5:21

>>>>>()<<<<<

Does Jesus Save?

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: John 3:16(a)

No?

and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36(b)

Yes?

He that believeth on him is not condemned: John 3:18(a)

No?

but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:18(b)

Who You Gonna Trust?

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. Isaiah 55:8-9

Jesus?

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. John 6:47

Yourself?

Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD. Jeremiah 17:5

Jesus?

Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is. Jeremiah 17:7

Yourself?

He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered. Proverbs 28:26

Jesus!

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Hebrews 11:6

>>>>>()<<<<<

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Hebrews 10:10

Be Very Blessed

For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; Hebrews 10:14-16

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Bible2]

PaulT said:

No, ad hominum argument is an attempt to refute an argument by pointing out a character flaw in one's opponent. Parker1's question was legitmate.

The question was an ad hominem tu quoque argument, an answer of "no" setting up the ad hominem tu quoque charge of hypocrisy, and an answer of "yes" also setting up the ad hominem tu quoque charge of hypocrisy, in that even an answer of "yes" sets up the ad hominem tu quoque charge of the sin of boasting (Romans 1:30).

Such ad hominem tu quoque argumentation isn't legitimate because it does nothing to disprove the points that have been made: that all that's being said is what the Bible itself teaches (2 Timothy 3:16-17), and that the Bible itself says that it's not difficult for Christians to perfectly obey everything that it requires of them (1 John 5:3, Matthew 11:30, John 14:15,21, Matthew 5:48, Revelation 3:2, 2 Timothy 3:16-17, Colossians 1:28, Philippians 3:15, 1 Corinthians 2:6, 2 Corinthians 13:11).

PaulT said:

You, on the other hand are guilty of obfuscation, petitio principii, argumentum ad vericundium, misuse of analogy, cliche thinking, prestige jargon and emotive language.

From what's been posted, please quote an example of obfuscation, an example of petitio principii, an example of argumentum ad verecundium, an example of misuse of analogy, an example of cliche thinking, an example of prestige jargon, and an example of emotive language.

Please indicate how what's been posted has been proven wrong.

Edited September 15, 2010 by Bible2

[Bible2]

exrockstar said:

you obviously do not know what salvation is.

Please indicate how this charge has been proven.

Please indicate how what's been posted has been proven wrong.

[Bible2]

FresnoJoe said:

Dear One Jesus Started It And Jesus Will Finished It

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Hebrews 12:2

Amen.

Hebrews 12:2 means that it's only because of Jesus that saved people can continue in the faith unto the end (Colossians 1:23, Hebrews 3:6,14). But Jesus doesn't take away the free will of saved people. So it's possible for them to wrongly employ their will to depart from the faith, to commit apostasy (Luke 8:13, 1 Timothy 4:1, 2 Thessalonians 2:3, Hebrews 3:12, 2 Timothy 4:3-4, Matthew 13:21), to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6, 2 Timothy 2:12, Mark 8:35-38, Hebrews 10:38-39, Matthew 24:9-13).

FresnoJoe said:

And Believer's Know

As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us. Psalms 103:12

Amen.

But Psalms 103:12 applies only to sins which have been repented from and confessed to God (1 John 1:9), not to any unrepentant sins (Hebrews 10:26-29).

FresnoJoe said:

By Faith!

For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith

Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 1 John 5:4-5

Amen.

But 1 John 5:4-5 only gives assurance that believers can presently be overcomers. It doesn't give any assurance that every believer will overcome unto the end (Matthew 24:9-13, Hebrews 3:6,14, Revelation 2:26, Hebrews 6:11-12).

Revelation 3:5 shows that any saved person can in the end have his name blotted out of the book of life, he can in the end lose his salvation, if he doesn't overcome unto the end (cf. Revelation 2:26, Hebrews 6:11-12, Hebrews 3:6,14, Matthew 24:9-13).

An example of saved people "overcoming" <G3528> (Revelation 3:5) or "getting the victory" <G3528> (Revelation 15:2) unto the end is found later in the book of Revelation, in Revelation 15:2, which refers to those saved people who will be willing to be killed by the coming Antichrist instead of worshipping him to save their lives during the coming worldwide persecution against Christians (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4, Matthew 24:9-13). Christians will be able to spiritually "overcome" the Antichrist and the devil by not loving their lives unto the death (Revelation 12:11).

But it's also possible for Christians to fail to "overcome", and so in the end to lose their salvation (Revelation 3:5), if they are "fearful" (Revelation 21:7-8) of being tortured or killed (Matthew 10:28, Luke 12:4-5, Hebrews 2:15, Revelation 2:10) to the point where they will wrongly employ their will to renounce Jesus Christ and his gospel, to commit apostasy, in order to keep from getting tortured and killed (Mark 8:35-38, 2 Timothy 2:12, Matthew 24:9-13, Matthew 13:21, Luke 8:13, Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6, Colossians 1:23, Hebrews 3:6,14, Hebrews 10:38-39).

FresnoJoe said:

By Faith!

Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:

And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting. Psalms 139:23-24

Amen.

Psalms 139:23-24 brings to mind that if saved people commit a sin, even if they're unaware of it, Jesus will send them warning and chastisement to make sure that they know they've sinned and need to repent (Revelation 3:19, Hebrews 12:6-8), and he'll give them time to repent (Revelation 2:21). It's only if they wrongly employ their will to waste the time they're given and ignore the warning and chastisement, and refuse to repent (Revelation 2:21) until death (1 John 5:16) or Jesus' return (Matthew 24:48-51), that they'll in the end lose their salvation because of unrepentant sin (Hebrews 10:26-29, 1 Corinthians 9:27, Matthew 24:48-51, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, 2 Peter 2:20-22, Romans 8:13, 1 John 5:16, James 5:19-20, Hebrews 5:9).

FresnoJoe said:

By Faith!

I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.

I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever 1 John 2:13-17

Amen.

1 John 2:17 shows that it's only believers who actually do the will of God who will obtain ultimate salvation (Matthew 7:21).

FresnoJoe said:

By Faith!

Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. John 6:29

Amen.

John 6:28-29 means that for people to work the works of God they first must believe in Jesus, for apart from Jesus, people can work no works of God (John 15:5b).

In order to obtain ultimate salvation, believers in Jesus must patiently continue to perform good works unto the end (Romans 2:6-8, James 2:24, Matthew 7:21, Philippians 2:12, 2 Corinthians 5:9, Revelation 22:14, Hebrews 5:9, 2 Peter 1:10-11, Hebrews 6:10-12, Philippians 3:11-14). But there's no assurance that they will choose to do that (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a).

Also, in order to obtain ultimate salvation, believers in Jesus must continue to believe in him unto the end (Colossians 1:23, Hebrews 3:6,14). But there's no assurance that they will choose to do that (Luke 8:13, 1 Timothy 4:1, 2 Thessalonians 2:3, Matthew 24:9-13, Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6, 2 Timothy 2:12, Mark 8:35-38, Hebrews 10:38-39, 2 Timothy 4:3-4).

Also, even if they do continue in faith and good works, believers in Jesus will obtain ultimate salvation only if they also continue to repent from every sin that they might commit unto the end (Hebrews 10:26-29, 1 Corinthians 9:27, Matthew 7:22-23, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21). But there's no assurance that they will choose to do that (Matthew 24:48-51, 2 Peter 2:20-22, Romans 8:13, 1 John 5:16, James 5:19-20).

Also, believers in Jesus will obtain ultimate salvation only if they help Christians in need (Matthew 25:34-40). But there's no assurance that believers in Jesus will always choose to do that (3 John 1:10).

Also, believers in Jesus will obtain ultimate salvation only if they provide for their families (1 Timothy 5:8). But there's no assurance that believers in Jesus will always choose to do that (1 Timothy 5:8).

Also, believers in Jesus will obtain ultimate salvation only if they don't commit the unforgivable sin, which is blaspheming the Holy Spirit (Mark 3:29). An example of blaspheming the Holy Spirit is saying that an act performed by the power of the Holy Spirit is performed by Satan (Mark 3:22-30). There's no assurance that believers in Jesus will never choose to say that (cf. 1 Corinthians 14:39, 1 Thessalonians 5:19).

Also, believers in Jesus will obtain ultimate salvation only if they don't remove words from the text of the book of Revelation, and then publish the altered text as if it were the original, without repentance (Revelation 22:19). There's no assurance that believers in Jesus will never choose to do that (cf. 2 Corinthians 4:2).

Believers in Jesus will obtain ultimate salvation only if they continue in God's goodness unto the end (Romans 11:20-22). But there's no assurance that they will choose to do that (Luke 12:45-46). Believers in Jesus will obtain ultimate salvation only if they overcome unto the end (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:26). But there's no assurance that they will choose to do that (Revelation 21:7-8).

FresnoJoe said:

By Faith!

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it. Revelation 2:17

Amen.

But Revelation 2:17 doesn't give any assurance that initially saved people will overcome unto the end, and so not end up losing their salvation (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:26).

FresnoJoe said:

By Faith!

Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. Revelation 2:10

Amen.

But Revelation 2:10 doesn't give any assurance that initially saved people will be faithful unto death, and not commit apostasy (Luke 8:13, 1 Timothy 4:1, 2 Thessalonians 2:3, Hebrews 3:12, 2 Timothy 4:3-4, Matthew 13:21), to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6, 2 Timothy 2:12, Mark 8:35-38, Hebrews 10:38-39, Matthew 24:9-13).

FresnoJoe said:

Jesus Saves

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. John 6:47

Amen.

But saved people ultimately retaining their salvation will be conditional upon their continued belief unto the end (Hebrews 3:6,14, Colossians 1:23, Hebrews 6:4-8), their continued good works and obedience unto the end (Romans 2:6-8, Matthew 7:21, Matthew 25:26,30), and their continued repentance from every sin that they might commit unto the end (Hebrews 10:26-29, Matthew 24:48-51, 1 Corinthians 9:27).

FresnoJoe said:

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Proverbs 3:5-6

Amen.

But Proverbs 3:5-6 gives no assurance that initially saved people will do any of those things unto the end.

(Continued)

[Bible2]

(Continued)

FresnoJoe said:

Jesus Loves Me This I Know

How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them!

If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand: when I awake, I am still with thee. Psalms 139:17-18

For The Bible Tells Me So

And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them. John 17:26

Amen.

But saved people need to be careful to keep themselves in the love of God (Jude 1:21) and continue in his goodness (Romans 11:22) by continuing in faithful obedience to him (John 14:21), if they don't want God to ultimately cut them off (Romans 11:22, John 15:2a) and cast them away (1 Corinthians 9:27, John 15:6).

FresnoJoe said:

Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD. Jeremiah 17:5

Obedient Christians don't trust in themselves, for they know that apart from Jesus they're desperately wicked (Jeremiah 17:9) and can't do any good work (Romans 3:12, John 15:5b).

FresnoJoe said:

By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Hebrews 10:10

Amen.

Hebrews 10:10 means that the once-for-all-time offering of the body of Jesus Christ has sanctified believers. But the perfect tense doesn't denote permanence. For example, if someone says in the perfect tense: "I have washed my child", this doesn't mean that the child has been made permanently clean. For after having being washed, the child can wrongly employ his will to go out and play in the mud. Similarly, washed/sanctified believers (1 Corinthians 6:11) can wrongly employ their will to go back to wallowing in the mire (2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Corinthians 12:20-21).

Faith in the once-for-all-time offering of the body of Jesus Christ only sanctifies believers from sins that are past (Romans 3:25-26), as in sins which have been repented from and confessed to God (1 John 1:9). Jesus' offering doesn't remit unrepentant sins (Hebrews 10:26-29). So a saved person can in the end lose his salvation if he wrongly employs his will to commit unrepentant sins (Hebrews 10:26-29, 1 Corinthians 9:27, Matthew 24:48-51, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, 2 Peter 2:20-22, Romans 8:13, 1 John 5:16, James 5:19-20, Hebrews 5:9).

FresnoJoe said:

For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; Hebrews 10:14-16

Amen.

Hebrews 10:14 means that the once-for-all-time offering of Jesus Christ has perfected believers. But the perfect tense doesn't denote permanence. For example, if someone says in the perfect tense: "I have perfected my garden", this doesn't mean that the garden has been made permanently perfect. For after having been made perfect, it can sprout weeds.

Also, the "forever" in Hebrews 10:14 doesn't denote a permanent perfection, but refers to how the once-for-all-time offering of Jesus Christ is perpetually applied in the ongoing and eternal process by which saved people are "being sanctified" (Hebrews 10:14, original Greek tense), so long as they are repenting from and confessing to God every sin they might commit (1 John 1:9, 1 John 1:7).

[Bible2]

Parker1 said:

Well, in my opinion, which doesn't mean much, you are "boasting" of your "knowledge" when you answer every post someone else posts with your "Amen. But..." I find it offensive, boorish and condescending. But again, it's just my opinion.

This is ad hominem argumentation. Calling a person boastful, offensive, boorish, and condescending doesn't prove that what that person has said is false.

Regarding why so many quoted verses have been replied to with an "Amen. But...", that's because even when what some verses say doesn't appear difficult in itself, they can still be misinterpreted by failing to qualify them in light of what the rest of the Bible says. In order to arrive at correct doctrine, verses in one place in the Bible must be compared with (qualified by) other, related verses elsewhere in the Bible (Isaiah 28:9-10, 1 Corinthians 2:13). Our doctrine must be based on what the entire Bible says (2 Timothy 3:16, Matthew 4:4), and not just on what some unqualified verses say.

[Guest]

:24:

What A Blessing! Talking Jesus, Jesus Jesus All Day Long!

But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 1 Corinthians 15:13-14

My God

If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first-fruits of them that slept. 1 Corinthians 15:19-20

And My LORD

In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. John 14: 2-3

Is There Any Doubt

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. Matthew 7:24-25

That Without Jesus

And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. Matthew 7:26-27

We're So Sunk

And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water.

And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus.

But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me.

And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt? Matthew 14:28-31

And Doubts May Kill

And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. Matthew 28:17

Still Jesus Christ Saves

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. Matthew 11:28-30

All Who Would Trust In Him

Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:

The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.

And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me. Matthew 11:4-6

>>>>>()<<<<<

Do You Hear His Voice

Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?

He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?

And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee.

And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him. John 9:35-38

Calling

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Revelation 22:16-17

Yet

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. John 5:28-29

>>>>>()<<<<<<

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. John 5:39-40

Be Very Blessed

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts. Jeremiah 15:16

Love, Your Brother Joe

>>>>>()<<<<<

Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith,

having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) Hebrews 10:22-23

BLESSÈD ASSURANCE

Words: by Fanny Crosby, 1873

Blessèd assurance, Jesus is mine!

O what a foretaste of glory divine!

Heir of salvation, purchase of God,

Born of His Spirit, washed in His blood.

Refrain

This is my story, this is my song,

Praising my Savior, all the day long;

This is my story, this is my song,

Praising my Savior, all the day long.

-

Perfect submission, perfect delight,

Visions of rapture now burst on my sight;

Angels descending bring from above

Echoes of mercy, whispers of love.

Refrain

This is my story, this is my song,

Praising my Savior, all the day long;

This is my story, this is my song,

Praising my Savior, all the day long.

-

Perfect submission, all is at rest

I in my Savior am happy and blest,

Watching and waiting, looking above,

Filled with His goodness, lost in His love.

Refrain

This is my story, this is my song,

Praising my Savior, all the day long;

This is my story, this is my song,

Praising my Savior, all the day long.

Amen!

[Jedi4Yahweh]

Parker1 said:

Well, in my opinion, which doesn't mean much, you are "boasting" of your "knowledge" when you answer every post someone else posts with your "Amen. But..." I find it offensive, boorish and condescending. But again, it's just my opinion.

This is ad hominem argumentation. Calling a person boastful, offensive, boorish, and condescending doesn't prove that what that person has said is false.

Regarding why so many quoted verses have been replied to with an "Amen. But...", that's because even when what some verses say doesn't appear difficult in itself, they can still be misinterpreted by failing to qualify them in light of what the rest of the Bible says. In order to arrive at correct doctrine, verses in one place in the Bible must be compared with (qualified by) other, related verses elsewhere in the Bible (Isaiah 28:9-10, 1 Corinthians 2:13). Our doctrine must be based on what the entire Bible says (2 Timothy 3:16, Matthew 4:4), and not just on what some unqualified verses say.

Bible2 these guys know they have no truth to their argument, so they have switched from debating scripture to personal attacks. In my opinion this topic should have been closed a long time ago.

[Rick-Parker]

Please indicate how what's been posted has been proven wrong.

I know this question is not meant for me, but I just want to be clear. I, nor do I believe PaulT, am not disputing what you say (although I do disagree with your works based model of salvation.) It is the way that you post. I find it to be offensive, boorish and condescending. Notice that I did not say that I find YOU to be that way, but the way that you conduct yourself through you postings, where you come in and correct or "clarify" what the poster has posted. Without posting the actual scriptures but only giving Book, Chapter and Verse, which helps no one. You are not the end all or be all with the knowledge of scripture. It smells of pride and arrogance, something you said you did not want. I am pretty sure that there are many others who are offended by this, I just happen to be the one who did not control their tongue and not confront you. That is a bad characteristic that I have and which I have confessed to the Lord for His help. In my opinion, which again does not account for much, you should look at how you are affecting your brothers and sisters in Christ with your arrogant posting style and realize that it ruins your ministry to continue in the fashion. May God Bless you and open you heart to what I have said.