wives submitting??

[Guest kitkat]

Today, the head of the household can be either a man or a woman. Times have changed since the Bible. In most homes, the man is generally, the leader and head of the household, but I've seen some households where the woman actually makes the decisions.

However, those households that are successful and blessed are the ones where the head of the house, when making decisions, puts his mate or families interests ahead of their own.

In other words, decisions that are made for the good of the family, whether the head of the household is a man or a woman, come from households that are successful in today's world.

In our household, my husband is the head of the house, but we mutually agree on something before a decision is made and any decision is always made for the good of the family. Not the good of the head of the household. My husband is always sensitive to what my feelings may be about any issue, so he always talks things over with me before a decision is made.

Kat

[artsylady]

Until you've been a single working mother, responsible for all the decision making, discipline, money management, bill paying etc, etc, etc, you will never know how GREAT it is to hand over a lot of this stuff to partner that you trust. That freed me up from a lot of headaches and worry. I trust my husband immensely. He knows what he's doing and I trust God even more! This is all beyond human understanding, so if you're just going to stay and argue your point, this whole debate is pointless. I have a feeling you are young and unmarried, but hope that when you choose your mate, you will choose someone that you can trust to do the best for your family and that you will be able to fulfill the God-given role that you have been handed. At this point, I'd say you are nowhere ready for marriage. You are thinking to much about the 'self'. Marriage is when two are joined as one.

[johnP]

Hello Angel-Eyes. (I've never dared call a girl that before. Hope the wife don't read this!)

Good post and well worth the read.

Last night my six year old son asked me to get him a glass of water and, as the skivvy of the house, I dutifully obliged. On my way to the kitchen he called out, "And I'll have a banana milk shake after."

As I brought the glass of water to his highness he reached over to a side plate with some left over melon on and handed it to me saying, "Would you put that in the kitchen for me."

No please no thank you.

I turned to my wife and said that we have no problems with this one. He is growing up a fine man.

I thought I would pass that on because I thought it was funny!

I have saved that article for use the next time this discussion starts up. Save having to search the scriptures out.

Thanks.

johnp

[artsylady]

When a couple is in disagreement about something - they've disussed it to death and simply disagree strongly, what is your advice to solve the problem. Keep in mind, both man and wife have had valid points. Both make sense. Both are realistic and both options can work. What is your advice to these people? To fight it out? Married couples sometimes divorce over such an issue- an important decision that comes between the two of them.

John: What is your answer?

cute story btw.

[Kabowd]

Angel-Eyes, there are some inconsistencies in interpretation of Scripture in the article you posted. Especially regarding the "head". I don't have time to respond right now, but I just wanted to point out that ppl shouldn't take commentaries at face value. Especially when they lack deeper study of original text or context.

[Guest LadyC]

Until you've been a single working mother, responsible for all the decision making, discipline, money management, bill paying etc, etc, etc, you will never know how GREAT it is to hand over a lot of this stuff to partner that you trust. That freed me up from a lot of headaches and worry. I trust my husband immensely. He knows what he's doing and I trust God even more! This is all beyond human understanding, so if you're just going to stay and argue your point, this whole debate is pointless. I have a feeling you are young and unmarried, but hope that when you choose your mate, you will choose someone that you can trust to do the best for your family and that you will be able to fulfill the God-given role that you have been handed. At this point, I'd say you are nowhere ready for marriage. You are thinking to much about the 'self'. Marriage is when two are joined as one.

AMEN! been there done that!

[johnP]

Hello artsylady.

The answer is simple. There is no submission in there as far as I see. Who's going to win the argument? The one that submits because we are to Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. Eph 5:21.

You collect your kingdom points and the other is left with the problem! She wants the decision good luck to her. It will be me giving the look if she is wrong and then I can get some more kingdom points for not rubbing it in. Ha Ha!

A bit unorthodox I admit but I have been married four times and I learnt the easy way the hard way.

In principle what have I got to lose if I submit?

There are usually many resolutions to a problem, what does it matter if you do it your way or hers, the problem will be resolved in most cases which ever choice is made.

If the conflict comes to the place of seperation then what can be said is that the couple have failed to love each other sufficiently and need to learn what love is. Love is submission. The choices we make are for the benefit of the other not for ourselves. This is difficult.

If she wants something so much that she is willing to dump me then love was not there, or has been forgotten and has been damaged already. By the both of us.

We are called to commit ourselves to each other as Jesus committed Himself to us.

The decision for who decides is resolvable by sometimes modifing our behaviour to take in ever changing circumstances.

What have you got to lose but the wife. Plenty more fish in the sea. But you end up in the same boat again and again. Better to submit than go through all that again and again! Because if you can't live with her you can't live with any her. Because it is not her that should determine my love. It is me that determines my love. It is my duty to commit myself to her and let her have her way because I love her and want her to be happy even if she's wrong.

I would follow her anywhere. I have committed myself in Christ to love her. No decision can come in between us except if the decision to be made is proscribed by God, then I would refuse and prepare for divorce.

Sounds alright to me, what do you think?

johnp

[artsylady]

The answer is simple. There is no submission in there as far as I see. Who's going to win the argument? The one that submits because we are to Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. Eph 5:21.

Well if they both submit then no decision is made?

You collect your kingdom points and the other is left with the problem!

Which, since this is not the Godly solution, is indeed a problem.

She wants the decision good luck to her. It will be me giving the look if she is wrong and then I can get some more kingdom points for not rubbing it in. Ha Ha!

I guess this couple needs to learn the hard way! This is all on HUMAN terms. Sure, we can live our life this way, make decisions this way, etc, etc, but if we want to follow GOD's way, which is the IDEAL, then that's the best way at all times, don't you agree?

A bit unorthodox I admit but I have been married four times and I learnt the easy way the hard way.

lol! I wrote that first sentence in the paragraph above without knowing you wrote this earlier! Please don't take this the wrong way, but I want a strong man who will stick to his convictions. However, if he's wrong, GOD will show him he's wrong - not me! That's WHY i trust him.

In principle what have I got to lose if I submit?

There are usually many resolutions to a problem, what does it matter if you do it your way or hers, the problem will be resolved in most cases which ever choice is made.

I'm not talking about a disgreement as to where to go for dinner here. Those are easy and the husband can submit to the wife's will here, depending. I know sometimes if my husband feels like I really want to go somewhere more than he does, he'll just submit. However, what if this is a life changing decision??? What if the wife gets a job clear across the country and really wants to take it??? What if the husband feels led to be a missionary in the Sudan???? You can't just say the problem will be resolved whatever choice is made! Come on. If the husband feels like he wants to see everything, give it to missions and then move to the Sudan, if he is not making a Godly decision, this family could wind up in dire straights!!! lol. think about it! This is why MANY couples divorce.

So you've left your answer rather vague anyway. You said that one is just supposed to submit. Fine. Not really. In a purely human situation, it's not that easy. Anyway, if the Godly guidelines were not there, whomever has decided to submit will probably feel resentment toward the other for giving in. There will probably be a tally created. "I gave in this time, it's YOUR turn to give in" - that kind of thing.

In a Godly situation, where the wife willingly submits and they both submit to God for the answer, everyone wins and everyone is happy! What don't you get about this. Did you hear a Christian woman here say that this does not work???

If the conflict comes to the place of seperation then what can be said is that the couple have failed to love each other sufficiently and need to learn what love is.

Well, it should not come to this. Hello! That's why God put this in place for us.

Love is submission. The choices we make are for the benefit of the other not for ourselves. This is difficult.

You know what? It's not difficult. At least it's not difficult for me. I 99 percent of the time go along with whatever my husband wants to do, and he knows the kinds of things I want to do. Often I don't even want to hear the details I just tell him to make the decisions. I know and trust him enough to know that he'll make good decisions for us. . I'm very easy going and I think he appreciates that. However, this weekend my husband wanted to go to his uncles and I wanted to go away alone together. He gave in without a word, because most times, I just go with whatever he wants to do. (This isn't a major life changing decision either, mind you)

If she wants something so much that she is willing to dump me then love was not there, or has been forgotten and has been damaged already.

That's exactly the kind of thing that can happen. And her thought process will be, "If he doesn't see that I want and need this so bad, he doesn't love me enough".

THANK GOD he gave us instruction!!!! Take this instruction my friend!!

[johnP]

Hello artsylady.

Well if they both submit then no decision is made?

The problem is sometimes in our minds and not reality. The problem is not to do with the problem. Do not worry Jesus said.

The decision has no worry attached to it. The pressure is off with most of the decisions to be made, should be all but we miss perfection.

Have you included in your assessment the fact that love can overcome all things? For everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 1 John 5:4. John 16:33.

Only faith will overcome because faith brings love and love submits. You have submitted to your husband because you love Jesus but you must love your husband and become one flesh and love Jesus in that oneness, that complete person we become when we become one.

Maybe I have lost touch with reality a bit, bear with me and correct me like I correct you in a minute.

Which, since this is not the Godly solution, is indeed a problem.

You err. My life is devoted to doing what I think my Lord expects of me. Nothing I do leaves Him out of the equation.

And with the greatest respect sister, you cannot say that it is not Godly because you did not include love overcoming the world. But I am not such a person that believes that he can make a decision without self coming to the fore. That is what our decisions do to us. We are still sinners so self interest must be to the fore in any decision. Only as one will it benefit both of you. (That's good is it not?)

follow GOD's way, which is the IDEAL, then that's the best way at all times, don't you agree?

I do. I am glad we are in agreement. Let us work it out together then.

...but I want a strong man who will stick to his convictions. However, if he's wrong, GOD will show him he's wrong - not me! That's WHY i trust him.

I don't stick to my convictions artsylady, my convictions have me round the throat. But why do you say this, I don't see why you question my convictions.

Was it my light heartedness or my unorthodoxy that threw you?

If my wife did not restrain me when I am about to make a mistake I would conclude that she did not love me in the way she should. But she does correct me and restrain me and sometimes she rebukes me. And often she is right and we both benefit from the knowledge that we support each other and care.

I don't think it is bad that you think this way. Since you believe that Jesus commands you to submit to headship you think you are being obedient. That is good but you are still wrong. Trusting in Jesus is good but don't trust your man because he is insufficient without your input. You are the suitable helper.

GOD will show him he's wrong - not me!

There you go again shirking your responsibilty! Gen 2:18 The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."

God was right when He said, "Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you." Gen 3:16. Women went from co-ruler to skivvy in one chapter. And they like it. And why shouldn't they. Responsility has been shed. That's what they think. (They, not women in general, they, those that think like that. I've got enough trouble!)

And the men like it ever so much. Little tin pot gods you make us and we love it. Rulership. Master in me own home. The little woman in the kitchen. Domestic bliss.

The story of my son shows that it is in us to behave to type and since it is in us it must be sinful.

Horrible bit coming up.

I guess this couple...

John and Linda artsylady and are you repyling to me? It is a bit confusing because you mention me but you seem to be addressing a crowd.

1 Peter 2:17 Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king.

I hope you don't get angry. It is not easy to correct a fellow member of the Royal Priesthood. But then my wife does not seem to think so. I sometimes have to remind her that the saying, "She wears the trousers in that house." Is never meant as a compliment.

I'm not talking about a disgreement as to where to go for dinner here.

Ok, now you are defining the problem. Now it gets more specific.

Those are easy and the husband can submit to the wife's will here, depending. I know sometimes if my husband feels like I really want to go somewhere more than he does, he'll just submit.

Ah! Brilliant! You just threw your whole argument away.

Why do you think that it is alright in some circumstances for your husband to disobey God? Do you decide the relative importance of things? Eve decided to eat out and her husband joined her! You are holding two conflicting beliefs which is not suprising. Men know you lot are muddle headed! Ha Ha.

Those are easy and the husband can submit to the wife's will here, depending.

You knew you had made a mistake didn't you?

I spoke to my wife earlier about this discussion and her reply to me was the same as yours. But in reality, on further examination, she realised that that was not so. She carries much of the weight.

...whomever has decided to submit will probably feel resentment toward the other for giving in...

Not when you love each other. That is what love is, giving in. Submission. Do you see? It's wonderful to share everything with the one you love.

I just tell him to make the decisions.

That how I treat my wife. Great ain't it?

Look, I think I will leave the rest. I think you made a mistake so I will let you start again if you like. You do try to cover the error again later with, "(This isn't a major life changing decision either, mind you)" But it is of no use to you. You have a contradiction.

I'll pray for you while you re-examine your mind and I'll catch you back here when you are ready please.

And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work.

Peace I leave you.

johnp

[Work in Progress]

I am a believer, as I already stated.

Then why don't you follow the mandate that I already stated from Corinthians, regardless of the context and interpretation? Or do you?

The Bible also tells us that a priest's daughter who has been "whoring" must be burned. That sounds like a man - by that I mean HUMAN - writing to me.

Has nothing to do with pride.

Sorry, but it has EVERYTHING to do with pride. The mere thought by some women that they can't be in control and run the show and "do what I want, when I want - nobody's gonna tell ME what to do!!!" raises up the hackles. Unfortunately - they have no clue was God's submission is.

Then why don't you follow the mandate that I already stated from Corinthians, regardless of the context and interpretation? Or do you?

Yes, I do. It's in there for a reason. God has painted a portrait of the beautiful, Godly woman and her place in a worship service. However, women filled with pride rebel and say - "I have every RIGHT to get up and speak! I'm just as good as any man!". They don't get it and that is what starts the trouble. If only they would dump the pride and obey God - what a thought! Then you would have a harmonious fellowship and so much more being accomplished for Christ.

The Bible also tells us that a priest's daughter who has been "whoring" must be burned.

Sorry, I don't know what you are talking about. And, again, God wrote the Bible, using men, and it is absolutely infallible. It's not just mere babblings of men and their opinions.