Fulfilling the law.

[Guest agua]

Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

Does this mean Jesus kept the law fully or that he bore the cost of the law being broken.

[~candice~]

Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

Does this mean Jesus kept the law fully or that he bore the cost of the law being broken.

Both

[Joshua-777]

Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

Does this mean Jesus kept the law fully or that he bore the cost of the law being broken.

Both.

[Botz]

Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

Does this mean Jesus kept the law fully or that he bore the cost of the law being broken.

Hi bro....It is obviously true that Jesus did keep the Law, and that He was the propitiation for those who broke it, but in the context of what is being said here, right near the beginning of what has become known as the Beatitudes, neither are the focal point of what is being spoken.

Firstly my understanding is that the crowds following Him were by and large Jewish, and He was talking to them as to His family, in that they shared the wealth of biblical history together, that included the teachings/law of Moses, and also that of the Prophets....and they would understand that He was talking about things that pertained to them as a people.

Prior to making his statement in verse 17, He has addressed 'them' as the 'salt of the earth'...it is a prophetic reminder of the nature of their nation, and why G-d chose them....to be 'the light of the world'....in other words, G-d was to be so evidenced amongst them, that the world/gentiles would come to and acknowledge Jehovah G-d. Popular teaching tends to have adapted the words of Jesus, and make it seem as if He is talking just to Believers, or Christians in particular, and although we can own much of what is being said...it has a definate and specific context.

The point being made has far-reaching ramifications on several levels, not least the fact that Jesus' place in history at that time, was in fulfilment of both the teachings of Moses and the inspired writings of the Prophets....and was very much in line with the way He introduced Himself in the synagogue Luke 4:20-21 'And He closed the book, gave it back to the attendant and sat down; and the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on Him. 21And He began to say to them,

[Guest LadyC]

if you were to ask the (humans) (pharisees) (religious leaders of the day) Jesus broke the law all the time.

but our human understanding of the law is so limited! Jesus IS the law, in its fulfillment... He is the law in bodily form, and in Spirit. in the eyes of His Father, He never broke the law. again, He IS the law.

the law, as was given as part of the first covenant, was designed to cover our sins. every tiny infraction of the law required a blood sacrifice for atonement. those priests had a never-ending job! the sacrifice that Jesus made became the final blood sacrifice required for atonement. nothing else is necessary other than our faith in Christ. nothing. our faith saves us. the law does not. in fact, paul says over and over throughout the NT that the law brings death. and that's true, it does, because it is impossible to keep the law. only Christ, the perfect sacrifice, brings life to those who put their faith in Him.

[Botz]

Ok Botz..so when Jesus said 18

[Joshua-777]

An important question arises from Jesus words in vs 17....Why might those listening to Him think or imagine He had come to abolish the Law, and why does He anticipate their thoughts and pre-empt them with His teaching on the Law?

They hoped Messiah would free them from the harsh treatment of the religious leaders and wrongly thought the law was responsible for this? I assume Jesus needed to make it clear the letter of law served upon them was not measured with wisdom or grace and He would teach the correct way to keep it in spirit.

I don't think they thought the law was responsible for the way they where treated. The religious leaders at time was accusing Jesus of being a law breaker, or claiming He is trying to destroy the law of moses.

[Guest LadyC]

An important question arises from Jesus words in vs 17....Why might those listening to Him think or imagine He had come to abolish the Law, and why does He anticipate their thoughts and pre-empt them with His teaching on the Law?

They hoped Messiah would free them from the harsh treatment of the religious leaders and wrongly thought the law was responsible for this? I assume Jesus needed to make it clear the letter of law served upon them was not measured with wisdom or grace and He would teach the correct way to keep it in spirit.

i think the second half of what you wrote was pretty accurate... and even the first part is kinda in the same ballpark... i believe Jesus was trying to teach them the correct way to keep the law (in the spirit) because the law results in death, whereas the spirit of the law (Christ) results in life. that's something paul never seemed to get tired of explaining to believers. not that the law was bad, in and of itself, but it was not life-giving. it was designed to show the israelites how utterly impossible it was to be in right standing with God. the consequence of violating the laws was often death. the only way to atone for the violations of the law was thru the death of an animal. no matter how ya look at it, death was central to the law.

the focus on the spirit of the law, however, brings freedom, and brings life. death is no longer required for atonement of sins, because Christ's blood was the last atoning blood every neceessary, and would cover all generations, both jew and gentile. the penalty for breaking laws, for those who place their faith in Jesus, is no longer spiritual death, because again, Christ's blood has already redeemed those who believe.

[mizzdy]

if you were to ask the (humans) (pharisees) (religious leaders of the day) Jesus broke the law all the time.

but our human understanding of the law is so limited! Jesus IS the law, in its fulfillment... He is the law in bodily form, and in Spirit. in the eyes of His Father, He never broke the law. again, He IS the law.

the law, as was given as part of the first covenant, was designed to cover our sins. every tiny infraction of the law required a blood sacrifice for atonement. those priests had a never-ending job! the sacrifice that Jesus made became the final blood sacrifice required for atonement. nothing else is necessary other than our faith in Christ. nothing. our faith saves us. the law does not. in fact, paul says over and over throughout the NT that the law brings death. and that's true, it does, because it is impossible to keep the law. only Christ, the perfect sacrifice, brings life to those who put their faith in Him.

Yeshua only broke the growing rabbinical laws, the fences they put around God's law is what they felt He broke. The commandments were never designed to 'save' anyone, they were there not only to point to the fact that man needed a savior but to show how God wants us to live our lives, shows us how to act and interact with one another, etc., that is why Yeshua said that all the commandments can be summed up in the two, love God first and foremost and then love your neighbors as your self. With the guideance, leading of the Holy Spirit we can walk in His commandments, not perfectly to be sure but since He took the condemnation of the law the death penalty away we no longer live under the threat of death if we break His laws.

[Botz]

An important question arises from Jesus words in vs 17....Why might those listening to Him think or imagine He had come to abolish the Law, and why does He anticipate their thoughts and pre-empt them with His teaching on the Law?

They hoped Messiah would free them from the harsh treatment of the religious leaders and wrongly thought the law was responsible for this? I assume Jesus needed to make it clear the letter of law served upon them was not measured with wisdom or grace and He would teach the correct way to keep it in spirit.

I am writing this just to let you know I have read your reply and others, all of which probably contain elements of truth...for myself, I am still meditating on it, as the question was as much to myself as anyone else.

Agua....Where can we see from Scripture that they thought Messiah would free them from the Law, and its harsh interpretation by its custodians?

LadyC.... Why at this precise point in His ministry would you say that Jesus makes the point that He has not come to annul/abolish the Law, what is the significance?

Hope you don't mind the questions, it just helps consolidate my line of thought