Evidence for evolution.

[Isaiah 6:8]

If you can provide to me one solid piece of evidence that is beyond subjection that evolution is real then I shall accept your world view and join you.

Now I say evolution is not a theory. I say this because I have yet to see one piece of objective evidence. Every piece of evidence I have seen has been said to prove evolution, or creation, just because the presenter of the item said so. Sometimes using the same information as proof to disprove the other! This shows me that if evolution is purely subjective, just as admittedly I say creation is purely subjective, then how can either of them be even labeled a theory. At best they are speculation and educated guess's. Now from my world view, all the evidence points to God and a Creator. These thoughts I will post on another topic.

The following quote I have posted on another topic speaking of the scientific method.

III.Common Mistakes in Applying the Scientific Method

Asstated earlier, the scientific method attempts to minimize theinfluence of the scientist's bias on the outcome of an experiment.That is, when testing an hypothesis or a theory, the scientist mayhave a preference for one outcome or another, and it is importantthat this preference not bias the results or their interpretation.The most fundamental error is to mistake the hypothesis for anexplanation of a phenomenon, without performing experimental tests.Sometimes "common sense" and "logic" tempt usinto believing that no test is needed. There are numerous examples ofthis, dating from the Greek philosophers to the present day.

Anothercommon mistake is to ignore or rule out data which do not support thehypothesis. Ideally, the experimenter is open to the possibility thatthe hypothesis is correct or incorrect. Sometimes, however, ascientist may have a strong belief that the hypothesis is true (or false), or feels internal or external pressure to get a specificresult. In that case, there may be a psychological tendency to find"something wrong", such as systematic effects, with datawhich do not support the scientist's expectations, while data whichdo agree with those expectations may not be checked as carefully. Thelesson is that all data must be handled in the same way.

http://teacher.pas.r.../appendixe.html.

So using this a benchmark, make sure any evidence you present is beyond interpretation by looking at it with the filter of, "Is this proof positive, or is it only proof because I want it to be?" This will not be easy, because I will and I am sure others will point out how it could be interpreted if it is not beyond subjection! I am not going to mean or nasty, about anything, I do want a clean honest debate. No name calling. No hurt feelings. If this goes anywhere near that point I will shut it down.

[Isaiah 6:8]

Also, I would like to address this notion of "proof". Science doesn't deal with proof, nothing is ever proven in science. Things can only be disproved and/or have various levels of support. For example, it is not scientifically proven that the Earth is round.

You have told me the proof against creationism was to great for you to accept it. Yes things can be proven in science. You can prove the effects of electricity etc.

This seems to be a dodge of the question.

But to clarify, I want hard evidence like that you would see a CSI use. What does the Evidence say, with all preconceived notions thrown out. From what you just said there is no proof of evolution, so there for why belive in it?

[Isaiah 6:8]

You have told me the proof against creationism was to great for you to accept it. Yes things can be proven in science. You can prove the effects of electricity etc.

No, the evidence against creationism is too strong for me to accept it. Science has it's roots in epistemology, and from that root it kept the 'nothing can be proven' mentality. Facts aren't proofs, they are merely verified observations. Laws aren't proof either, just descriptors of a certain phenomena. The effects of electricity are not proven, just strongly supported.

This seems to be a dodge of the question.

But to clarify, I want hard evidence like that you would see a CSI use. What does the Evidence say, with all preconceived notions thrown out. From what you just said there is no proof of evolution, so there for why belive in it?

I'm not trying to dodge the question. I simply just want to be close enough to the same page before we begin. Yes, technically evolution is not proven, just as the Earth being round is not proven, or F=ma, or gravity, or germ theory, or atomic theory, or anything else in science. That is my point. So in a scientific discussion asking for proof is either nonsense or "proof" is a stand in for something like "sufficient evidence". Given the nature of the thread I don't want to start off with something so ambiguous or nonsensical as "proof" in science.

You are arguing the meaning of the word proof. This is dodging the question. I take that there is no Evidence that has not been twisted by subjection. Since you keep avoiding the question.

[nebula]

just as the Earth being round is not proven,

OK, I need you to explain this one.

Satellites and people orbiting the Earth and sending back pictures is not proof of the Earth's shape?

[j102]

You have told me the proof against creationism was to great for you to accept it. Yes things can be proven in science. You can prove the effects of electricity etc.

No, the evidence against creationism is too strong for me to accept it. Science has it's roots in epistemology, and from that root it kept the 'nothing can be proven' mentality. Facts aren't proofs, they are merely verified observations. Laws aren't proof either, just descriptors of a certain phenomena. The effects of electricity are not proven, just strongly supported.

This seems to be a dodge of the question.

But to clarify, I want hard evidence like that you would see a CSI use. What does the Evidence say, with all preconceived notions thrown out. From what you just said there is no proof of evolution, so there for why belive in it?

I'm not trying to dodge the question. I simply just want to be close enough to the same page before we begin. Yes, technically evolution is not proven, just as the Earth being round is not proven, or F=ma, or gravity, or germ theory, or atomic theory, or anything else in science. That is my point. So in a scientific discussion asking for proof is either nonsense or "proof" is a stand in for something like "sufficient evidence". Given the nature of the thread I don't want to start off with something so ambiguous or nonsensical as "proof" in science.

so in other words are you saying that nothing can be known to be true or factual for curtain?

[Isaiah 6:8]

No, and are you calling God Deceitful?

[Isaiah 6:8]

For instance if you see a bullet hole, in the wall and pull a bullet out thats mushroomed that shows that a bullet was fired. Not subject to subjection.

Is there no such evidence because all I have gotten so fare is an argument on the terms of my request.

[Isaiah 6:8]

okay they both got the same retro virus? is this possible that the same virus was contracted at the same time by a chimp and a human? Since there is no intermediate species. The famous diagram that shows the evolution of man is false with no real human chimp hybrid.

[Guest]

For instance if you see a bullet hole, in the wall and pull a bullet out thats mushroomed that shows that a bullet was fired. Not subject to subjection.

Is there no such evidence because all I have gotten so fare is an argument on the terms of my request.

So, for instance, if we see the same ERV insertions in the same loci in both chimp and human genomes we know that they shared a common ancestor who originally contracted that retrovirus.

For Instance

I have had evolutionists rant and rave about ERVs but when they are confronted with the actual scientific data they are ready to change the subject. What they will tell you is that this represents some kind of a twin nested hiearchy, which is absurd, you wouldn't use highly transposable elements for something like that. You would use mitochondria dna (mtDNA) which is also refered to as a molecular clock. The molecular clocks are notoriously inaccurate and do not line up with what their paloeontologist brethren are saying. Molecular clocks can be as far out as 10-12 million years for the chimpanzee human split and that varies by a great deal as well.

ERVs are not proof of anything, if you notice there is very little scientific literature even being produced. That is because no one knew they were there until fairly recently and no one quite knows what to make of them, especially evolutionists.

If We Should See Jesus

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Ephesians 3:9

Creating Chimps And Critters And Such

And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. Genesis 1:24

And If We Then See Jesus Creating The First Man And Woman As A Special Non-Beast God Blessed Human Being

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Genesis 2:7

And If We Then Knowing The Truth Continue Calling God A Lier

Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding? Isaiah 29:16

Are We Really A Born Again Child Of The KING

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 1 Corinthians 12:3

Or Are We Just A Pack Of Hungry Brutes

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Matthew 7:16

God Deniers Without Understanding

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Romans 1:20-23

Yet Still Hunting

He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth. Luke 11:23

The Children

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If One Truly Claims The Name Of The Creator The LORD Jesus

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Revelation 4:11

One Knows Jesus Is LORD

But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2:10-14

And One Will Say So

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10

And The Truth

These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 1 John 2:26-27

Will Out

For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Romans 14:11-12

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Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God.

For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake; Philippians 1:27-29

Love, Your Brother Joe

[georgedrw81]

It is claimed by some that they can prove what happened hundred of thousand years ago or even millions of years ago. They say they have the method to do so. However as a I grow older and start getting bald, as many other men, there is no answer. When I have a running nose there is no answer either. When there are growing numbers of ants in my garden there is no answer as well. The list is endless yet these are living and present issues which have and are re-searched everyday.

Yet these experts claim that they know what happened tens of thousands of years ago. Many of us know as well what happened by reading the Bible.

Blessings