The Pre-trib Fallacy

[Trinity]

DE: I think the spirit in which people are "teaching" others is nasty.

I can't tolerate wallowing in the mudslinging of Christians who don't agree or like each other's understanding of scripture.

There's a diplomatic way of handling things...and frankly, brother...you haven't seemed too charitable lately.

I had to learn the hard way that "being right" isn't always the right thing to do. Being an example of Christ is.

I'm guilty of this in the past and praise God am learning that's NOT the way to get your point across.

That is why i am slowly leaving this thread... i don't like the mudslinging in which i am also guilty of, and it has been runing my testamony... I will give little time to this thread, i just pop in and out of it every once in awhile.

In His Love

Joel

[Guest LCPGUY]

DE: I think the spirit in which people are "teaching" others is nasty.   

I can't tolerate wallowing in the mudslinging of Christians who don't agree or like each other's understanding of scripture.

There's a diplomatic way of handling things...and frankly, brother...you haven't seemed too charitable lately.

I had to learn the hard way that "being right" isn't always the right thing to do. Being an example of Christ is.

I'm guilty of this in the past and praise God am learning that's NOT the way to get your point across.

That is why i am slowly leaving this thread... i don't like the mudslinging in which i am also guilty of, and it has been runing my testamony... I will give little time to this thread, i just pop in and out of it every once in awhile.

In His Love

Joel

DITTO!!!

[John3;16]

Daniel|9:25 Know therefore and understand,

[Adarian]

Catsmeow,

Kudos, excellent post. We are all one in Christ, we are all of Christ. We are all brothers and sisters. We are commanded to love each other. Love is gentle, love is kind,......it does no harm to its neighbor. It is long suffering.

Dad Ernie: you and I are brothers in the Lord. We agree on post trib, pre wrath rapture. Yet you treat with me harshly, as if I am one of the dogs to be found outside the kingdom. You tell me essentially to shut up and go away, that I am without understanding, even though I have studied the end times prophecies intently for over fourteen years without the aid of the many heretics who publish error either intentionally or otherwise, but listening intently, for hours a day, sometimes twelve hours straight, to the bible on CD. By reading and rereading and comparing scriptures side by side for days and weeks.

You are too harsh Dad Ernie. Let this be a place of kindness and calm discussion, not a place to drive off every brother or sister who says something you disagree with.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Adarian,

Dad Ernie: you and I are brothers in the Lord. We agree on post trib, pre wrath rapture. Yet you treat with me harshly, as if I am one of the dogs to be found outside the kingdom. You tell me essentially to shut up and go away, that I am without understanding, even though I have studied the end times prophecies intently for over fourteen years without the aid of the many heretics who publish error either intentionally or otherwise, but listening intently, for hours a day, sometimes twelve hours straight, to the bible on CD. By reading and rereading and comparing scriptures side by side for days and weeks.

You are too harsh Dad Ernie. Let this be a place of kindness and calm discussion, not a place to drive off every brother or sister who says something you disagree with.

I apologize if I have offended you Adarian, that was not my intent.

I have been in this battlefield for so long, my patience is often worn thin. You are right, I often come across too harsh and as I have done in the past, will try to temper my posts.

Just don't be surprised when my hackles are raised when I see apparent error being taught.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

P.S. Glad to know that you are post-trib pre-wrath.

[irishcowboy]

Dad Ernie

QUOTE

[Guest Vic]

Dad Ernie

I also am a believer in the post-trib, and thank you for the effort that you've made in making this post. It is important, because those that prefer to believe in a pre-trib may well be caught off guard and have their faith shattered when the great tribulation begins in earnest. That would greatly contribute to the falling away that Christ tells us about.

Your efforts may well strengthen and encourage brothers and sisters to prepare themselves with the armour of God to be able to take their stand when it comes upon us.

May God bless you.

In Christ

Rev. Nott

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Vic,

All I can do is plant seeds. It takes others like yourself to water them that perhaps they may grow, but God gives the increase.

I sorrow for those who have fallen for the big LIE. But I do know that WHEN Jesus comes, HE WILL NOT LEAVE ANY OF HIS BEHIND, especially the multitudes beyond count mentioned in Revelations.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest Coldbourne]

Why do I suddenly feel like Daniel?

This is a heck of a long thread, but there were a couple of points that caught me.

First, I don't particularly care if I am here during the Tribulation or if I go home before it. My faith is not based off of whether or not I will die for my beliefs.

Rom 8:22-25

"We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently. "

I await. If I await for a Rapture or for my death, I still wait in faith of redemption.

Rom 8:35

"Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written:

"For your sake we face death all day long;

we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."

I do not believe that true Christians will fall away for such idle curiosities as when we get to go to heaven.

Rom 8:38-39

"For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

I hold to my faith because my faith is all there is to hold to. Small trifles of when and where mean nothing if you have your faith in Christ.

Heb 11:1

"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see."

I am uncertain as to which belief is truth, be it either Post or Pre. Both cases have been laid out excellently, with various sources sighted for their beliefs.

Instead, I focus more on where I stand with my own beliefs in Christ and his promise. He promised he would return, he said only God would know the day. So why worry? "Stay Alert" but do not stay obsessed. There is much more to the bible than one issue.

Thus being said, I did have a few things that I would like to call "Dad" to account for. First being your quick tongue in condemning those that do not share your views. James 1:26 "If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he decieves himself and his religion is worthless."

Do not bring dishonor to your considerable intelligence and learning by using it in an attempt to disgrace others.

The issue at hand is not going to bring about untold scores of believers to question their faith. And if it does, then that is between God and themselves. Preach the truth, but allow for those who read it to see the truth through your words, not through your doggedness of rebutal.

Did you know that Peter was Satan? - Matthew 16:23

What kind of statement were you making? I completely disagree with it, though I will allow that I may be taking it out of the context of your usage. I do not think that Peter, an apostle on whom Christ would build his church, is Satan incarnate.

THIS IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST. The Mark upon the forehead represents our mind and the Mark on the RIGHT hand is the WORKS that we do.

This I also feel is a misinterpretation. Revelations is quite clear:

Rev 13:16-18

"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.

This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666. "

How can we "buy or sell" with the "works that we do"? This, I feel, is inconsistant with scripture. Some things are clear, others are not, but this does not resemble allegory in any way that I can recognize it.

Just my two cents.

In Chirst,

Coldbourne

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Coldbourne,

There are times and seasons for everything under the sun. There is a time for planting, a time for watering and a time for harvest. The hard ground must be broken up and good seed planted, then watering takes place over a long period of time, but today, I believe it is harvest time, yet so many tares have been sown. The Lord says to gather those tares when the harvest is ready and set them aside for burning.

The body of believers are filled with foxes that want to come in and steal the chickens and their eggs. The farmer has to be there with a shotgun and have the dogs at the ready.

Today, as like never before, there are false prophets that abound. Today is the day of the Laodician church spirit, it is most predominant in these days. This is the church that "God will spew out of His mouth"; it is the day of the Great Apostacy (the falling away); the day when men will no longer listen to sound doctrine.

Examine the power of the Two Witnesses. One day James and John went to minister at a particular city with Jesus, but they were rebuffed. Here are the comments:

Luke 9:53-54 And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem. 54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? 55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

It would seem that the Two Witnesses do not have the "spirit" of which Jesus referred. No, that is incorrect. The 3 had gone planting seed, it was NOT the time of the harvest.

We must keep these things in mind in these days:

1 Timothy 4:1-11 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. 6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained. 7 But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness. 8 For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come. 9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. 10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. 11 These things command and teach.

Revelation 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Blessings my brother/sister?,

Dad Ernie