Spin off From "IS Jesus God" thread in Doctrinal

[Fez]

I don't see where does this say that Jesus is God, Thomas was surprised that Jesus was resurrected, like saying "O my God", Jesus wasn't talking about believing that he is God, but believing that he was resurrected.

That comment is a loonnnng stretch. What makes you think you are correct in your assumption?

[Guest shiloh357]

If you have really gave evidence why my exegesis was poor, then you may have had a point, but you are just saying:"your exegesis is poor" without giving reason except for stating your faith. I have no problem whether you ridicule me or not, but the problem is that you said nothing proving me wrong.

I have demonstrated that your exegesis is poor in that you do violate the immediate context of the verses you have presented up to this point and that you have a poor understanding of the historical/cultural context of many of the terms used such as

[Guest shiloh357]

Nothing in the word son of God tells that he is God, I have already discussed it.

Here we go with your lack of understanding of the historcial/cultural context of the phrase. In Hebraic thought, the phrase

[Guest shiloh357]

As for Isaiah 7:14, I can see nothing in it proving that Jesus is God, whether it refers to Jesus or not, it is talking about the virgin(or the young maid) who will be pregnant and have a son called Immanuel (God with us) not Jesus, even the name doesn't indicate that Jesus is God as it was well known through Hebrew culture that many were named with suffix el referring to God like Ishmael, Israel, Joel.

Jesus was born of a virgin and the gospel of Luke tells us that she was of child by the power of the Holy Spirit. Jesus is of divine origin. Paul the apostles addresses this in Philippians chapter 2 when he tells us that Jesus emptied Himself and took upon himself the form of a servant, and became obedient to death,even to death on a cross. It shows that Jesus who was God came down to us and became one of us, becoming fully human.

The title

[Guest shiloh357]

So what? He is the only way to salvation because he is a true prophet sent by God and all people must follow him. Prophet Muhammad has the same case and none of us say that he is God, but since he is sent from God, we must follow him and if we didn't, we'll reach a dead end, and this applies to any prophet.

Sorry, but Muhammad is YOUR prophet. Jesus and Muhammad cannot even be compared. Jesus is of divine origin and is the Savior and Judge of the universe. Jesus is not a mere prophet like Muhammad. Muhammad

[Guest shiloh357]

Well, again, this word can be used in minor case, if you were about to die and someone saved you he will be your savior. The same thing here, if you follow Jesus , he will save you from your sins, doesn't necessarily mean that he is God.

Only God can save from sin. That is the point. Salvation from sin is a divine proposition that no man can facilitate. If man could have saved another man from sin, God would not have needed send His Son. Trying to compare Jesus with human rescuers is a non comparison

As for the word lord,First of all, the word "Lord means Master or Sir, it is a famous title for the Peers, for example "Lord Chancellor, Lord justice Bingham. In Britain, you adress a judge or Peer as my Lord" ( Cambridge International Dictionary of English). This was what meant by Paul calling him lord:

1Co 8:6 yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we through him.

So Paul separated between the two words God and Lord because he meant that Father is the only God to be worshipped other than false gods, and Jesus (Peace be upon him) the only master to be followed other than false prophets, this was also meant by saying "through whom are all things, and we through him." because he is the prophet whom they get their religion through him. Moreover, there are some English translations which sometimes use the word Master instead of Lord. For example in John 5:7, CEV and LITV uses the word lord instead of Sir or Master, in John 13:36 YLT and WNT use the words Master or Sir instead of Lord.

The Bible uses the word LORD when applied to God the Father and Jesus as a translation of YHVH. It uses the word

[Guest shiloh357]

Jesus clearly thanks the Father for hearing him what evidence do you want more than that? If God heard him, this means that Jesus asked God so God heard him, and he declared it in front of people so that they know that the Father sent him. The words of Jesus was the result of asking God, when he called Lazarus, these words were only the tool but it was God's power not Jesus power, otherwise, he won't have had the need to call the Father before calling Lazarus.

You are working from the assumption that Jesus was asking for help and the passage does not indicate that. There is nothing in that passage that clearly indicates that Jesus was incapable in Himself of raising Lazarus from the dead. In addition in the preceding verses, Jesus said the following:

[Guest shiloh357]

Again you are mixing between believing that Jesus is the Messiah and Jesus is God since the Messiah is God, I have nothing to do with the first issue, I am concerned with the second, where nowhere in the NT did Jesus cite the OT to prove that the Messiah is God. So please don't use the verses saying that Jesus is the foretold Messiah only as they are irrelevant. This looks like I cite the verses telling that God is one to disprove the Trinity, would you consider it relevant? So again, where did Jesus cite Isaiah 9:6 to prove that he is the Messiah who is God as mentioned in the OT? Or was this also a trivial issue that Jesus didn't concern about?

Jesus had more important issues to tackle than proving His Divinity. Jesus did not cite any messanic passages to prove His deity. So what??? That is not an argument against His Deity.

Again, there is a difference between god and God. Actually JPS didn't translate it. They left it in Hebrew as it is, you may speak Hebrew, Jews speak Hebrew as well, and none of them understood that it tells that Messiah is God, nor did Jesus himself.

You will not find one credible or honest person who speaks Hebrew that claims El Gibbor means anything but

[nebula]

Islam has nothing to do with actions of some individuals.

Woman Gets Sentenced to Death for Insulting the Muslim Faith

Christian woman, 45-year-old Asiia Bibi, is being sentenced to death in Pakistan for allegedly insulting Islam.

Report here

[nebula]

What else did Jesus say about Himself?

John 8:12 - Then Jesus again spoke to them, saying, "I am the Light of the world ; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life."

1. Jesus said, "I am," not "My teachings are," the Light of the world. Is He not saying, "Look to Me"?

2. Can anyone but God be "the Light"?

Actually, I don't see a big difference between saying I am or my teachings, because both of them have the same meaning...

Really? When you say, "I am . . ." do you mean, "My teachings are . . . ?"

When you say, "I am . . . " do you mean, "I represent . . . ?"

As for the answer to the second question, there are many kinds of light, the absolute light is from God, but there are many other types of light, electricity gives light! What Jesus is talking about here is the light of faith and following his teachings from God, that doesn't mean that Jesus is God.

Did Father Abraham claim to be the light of the world?

Did Moses claim to be the light of the world?

If Jesus had said, "I point people to the light of God," you would have a case. But He did not. He said, "I am the light," and not just any light, but "the light of the world."

28 Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God !"

29 Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed ? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."

I don't see where does this say that Jesus is God, Thomas was surprised that Jesus was resurrected, like saying "O my God",

To use God's name as an exclamation of surprise would be considered using God's name in vain. The Hebrews are much more sensitive to names and how one uses names than we are. If this was an exclamation, he should have been rebuked for saying such. But he wasn't.

Thomas was worshiping Jesus.

May the Lamb of God receive the reward of His suffering!