Interpreting The Book of Revelation

[Guest man]

The letters are addressed to the "angels," and if they are angelic beings there would be no need to write them a letter. But, the "stars" are symbols pointing to the "angels," as the Lord had to interpret what the stars stood for. And, as we know, He did not have letters written to heavenly angels, so the question remains, "who do the angels stand for?"

People.

After He address' each church, He says this, He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

He's speaking to those who make up the body of the church.

He uses an almost identical phrase while preaching to the people.

Matthew 11

15 He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

[Guest]

Wasn't yelling at you, just thought that maybe no one could see ... that it makes no sense at all for John to write letters to celestial beings.

Does it make sense to you to obey the Lord, even when you don't understand why He asks you to do something you think is out of place?

Let the priests, the ministers of the LORD, weep between the porch and the altar, and let them say, Spare thy people, O LORD, and give not thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen should rule over them: wherefore should they say among the people, Where is their God? Then will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity his people. Joel 2:17-18

Praying~!

Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee. Psalms 122:6

[sdktlk]

The letters are addressed to the "angels," and if they are angelic beings there would be no need to write them a letter. But, the "stars" are symbols pointing to the "angels," as the Lord had to interpret what the stars stood for. And, as we know, He did not have letters written to heavenly angels, so the question remains, "who do the angels stand for?"

People.

After He address' each church, He says this, "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."

He's speaking to those who make up the body of the church.

He uses an almost identical phrase while preaching to the people.

Matthew 11

15 He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

Yes, people. More more directly each of the seven letters to churches are sent to "the angel of the church." The star, the angel, here being singular and points to the one who is directly responsible for delivering the message to the people, the assemblies, the churches. That is the leader(s) of the flock are the one's that are directly responsible for Truth being spoken to the flock, and it is those stars that are being referred to here.

[sdktlk]

If you can show us the word ἄγγελος had been shown to mean something other than a spiritual being, then please do so.

"And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind? But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses. But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet. For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger (ἄγγελος) before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee." (Mat 11:7-10) Aggelos is used here with regard to John the Baptist - a human being.

And again the Apostle Paul said, "And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger (ἄγγελος) of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure." (2Cor 12:7) Here Aggelos is used to describe a demonic messenger.

There are more references, but by these we can see that ἄγγελος, aggelos, can be used with respect to an angelic being, a demonic being or a human being.

By this we can easily see the "stars" that are in the right hand of the Lord are the leaders of the assemblies.

[sdktlk]

And if we see that "stars" are the leaders, the overseers of the assembly, then what does this mean? "And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind." (Rev 6:13)

[Guest man]

And if we see that "stars" are the leaders, the overseers of the assembly, then what does this mean? "And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind." (Rev 6:13)

You're automatically assuming that everytime "stars" is mentioned, the symbolism is the same.

[Bold Believer]

In Revelation what do we believe, "The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand...are the angels of the seven churches" (Rev 1:20) represent, and why?

Well

Seek the LORD, and ye shall live; lest he break out like fire in the house of Joseph, and devour it, and there be none to quench it in Bethel. Ye who turn judgment to wormwood, and leave off righteousness in the earth, Seek him that maketh the seven stars and Orion, and turneth the shadow of death into the morning, and maketh the day dark with night: that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD is his name: Amos 5:6-8

Can

And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. Revelation 1:16

You

The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. Revelation 1:20

Hear

Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; Revelation 2:1

Him

And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. Revelation 3:1

Now

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, Revelation 1:1(a)

The question still remains, "what do we believe the seven stars, which are the seven angels, represent and why?"

Well, let's do this the simple way, shall we?

We know from the context that the seven stars are the seven angels, so the thing we need to look at is the Greek word for angels, which is angelos meaning messengers. Furthermore, the word can mean either human or supernatural messengers. I have heard both schools of thought applied; one that says the seven messengers are ministers or pastors of the seven churches, the other that the seven messengers are supernatural guardians of the churches. I suspect from the context though that the first understanding is most correct is this case because the LORD is dealing with the conduct of the churches, which pastors are responsible for. Hope this helps.

[sdktlk]

And if we see that "stars" are the leaders, the overseers of the assembly, then what does this mean? "And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind." (Rev 6:13)

You're automatically assuming that everytime "stars" is mentioned, the symbolism is the same.

Man, if Revelation 6:13 is referring to the literal stars of heaven then it's all over at that point. Earth cannot even stand a reasonable sized astroid much less the stars of heaven falling to earth.

Symbolically we see the Lord Jesus as, "...there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel..." (Num 24:17,) and "...the Day Star..." in 2Pet 2:19. He is called, "the Morning Star" in Rev 2:28; 22:16. We even see, "...dreamers..." called "...wandering stars..." in Jude 1:8-13.

The "stars falling from heaven" are spoken of by the Lord Jesus in Matthew 24:29; Mark 13:25; and Luke 21:25. And this "falling of stars" is before the coming of the Lord. It is not an assumption if we understand the "stars" are the leaders, the overseers of the 7 churches.

[Guest man]

And if we see that "stars" are the leaders, the overseers of the assembly, then what does this mean? "And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind." (Rev 6:13)

You're automatically assuming that everytime "stars" is mentioned, the symbolism is the same.

Man, if Revelation 6:13 is referring to the literal stars of heaven then it's all over at that point. Earth cannot even stand a reasonable sized astroid much less the stars of heaven falling to earth.

Symbolically we see the Lord Jesus as, "...there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel..." (Num 24:17,) and "...the Day Star..." in 2Pet 2:19. He is called, "the Morning Star" in Rev 2:28; 22:16. We even see, "...dreamers..." called "...wandering stars..." in Jude 1:8-13.

The "stars falling from heaven" are spoken of by the Lord Jesus in Matthew 24:29; Mark 13:25; and Luke 21:25. And this "falling of stars" is before the coming of the Lord.

How much time elapses from the falling of the stars until the second coming of Christ?

It is not an assumption if we understand the "stars" are the leaders, the overseers of the 7 churches.

What evidence do you have that the seven stars and the stars that fall are the same?

Not all references to stars is good.

[sdktlk]

And if we see that "stars" are the leaders, the overseers of the assembly, then what does this mean? "And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind." (Rev 6:13)

You're automatically assuming that everytime "stars" is mentioned, the symbolism is the same.

Man, if Revelation 6:13 is referring to the literal stars of heaven then it's all over at that point. Earth cannot even stand a reasonable sized astroid much less the stars of heaven falling to earth.

Symbolically we see the Lord Jesus as, "...there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel..." (Num 24:17,) and "...the Day Star..." in 2Pet 2:19. He is called, "the Morning Star" in Rev 2:28; 22:16. We even see, "...dreamers..." called "...wandering stars..." in Jude 1:8-13.

The "stars falling from heaven" are spoken of by the Lord Jesus in Matthew 24:29; Mark 13:25; and Luke 21:25. And this "falling of stars" is before the coming of the Lord.

How much time elapses from the falling of the stars until the second coming of Christ?

It is not an assumption if we understand the "stars" are the leaders, the overseers of the 7 churches.

What evidence do you have that the seven stars and the stars that fall are the same?

Not all references to stars is good.

If the Book of Revelation is a symbolic prophetic Book, as is set forth by the Lord Himself, and is easily seen to be the case, as the Church is continually trying to interpret all the symbol's as this or that. Then the "stars" as a symbol, specifically interpreted by the Lord Himself, has to remain consistent, else wise there is no possibility of anyone ever understanding what is written. And we know that the Lord hasn't given us a Book that not decent and in order.

It is the enemy that desires to cover up these things, not God. The serpent has been, "casting out water (twisted Word) as a flood after the woman" (Rev 12:15) for centuries. All the "stars" in the Book of Revelation point to leaders, either human or demonic.