THE REFORMATION:

[ServingHim]

1- You forgot the second half of that verse.

[stevehut]

1- well, I HAD three newborns who were baptized, and for their entire lives, I have been TEACHING THEM to OBEY!

2- hate to say it, steve, but a baby at the age of 1 minute 'calls' upon his/her parent

3- what does a baby have to REPENT OF...

4- and can't a family INCLUDE an infant or small child who is NOT of the age of reason?

5- Isn't it the parents JOB and DUTY to teach children...

6- Just read the early church fathers...

7- so where does ALL the people boil down to ONLY THOSE WHO ARE ABLE TO CONFESS SINS and REPENT of them?

8- so then are you reducing Baptism as merely a 'symbolic

9- Despite this wealth of evidence, Protestants are almost equally unanimous in rejecting this truth.

10- You might want to cover ALL your bases before your book goes into publishing and you lead MILLIONS astray...

11- By the way, BY WHAT AUTHORITY do YOU have to teach TRUTH?

12- How come in the 'DIDACHE' (The teachings of the Apostles themselves)

1- Um, I think it means around the time of their baptism...

2- So a baby can believe in Jesus?

3- My point exactly. That's why I pointed out that the Bible requires repentance in advance of baptism. (Actually, it's in the verse that you quoted to me!)

4- Sure it can. But in the context that you quoted, it says that the family was instructed before being baptized. Can a newborn be instructed, in the middle of the night?

5- Yup. But again, that wasn't the context here. It says they listened to the instruction of Paul and Silas, before their baptism.

6- Oh, but I have. Extensively.

7- Well, that is what it says. People repented and confessed before being baptized. Unless you want this to include ALL the population of Israel. And I don't think even you would go that far...

8- Absolutely not. My belief regarding baptism is well-known in here.

9- Not true.

The vast majority of Protestant churches have an official doctrine that says baptism is for the remission of sins.

This includes Methodists, Presbyterians, (some) Baptists, Anglicans, Episcopalians, Celts, Christadelphians, Brethren, Church of Christ, Mormons, Church of God in Christ, (some) Pentecostals, Lutherans, Mennonites, Anabaptists, Puritans, Reformed, and the World Council of Churches.

A short list of the churches that accept the Nicene Creed:

[stevehut]

BTW, Serving, I have no problem with the Didache teaching on baptism that you quoted. But it says nothing about baptizing babies, as far as I can tell, and wasn't that your premise?

In any event, I just noticed:

7:4 And thou shalt command him who is baptized to fast one or two days before.

Do you command a baby to fast for 1-2 days before being baptized? Or do you just withhold foor from him? This is new to me...

[Work in Progress]

Where in the Bible does it ever say or indicate that one must be of an age of accountability to be baptized?

Good question, Charlie. It doesn't. It's a man-made doctrine.

Serving, you're right in many points IMO. God commands us to put the sign on our children. He made a covenant with us about it.

[Khristeeanos]

*SNIPPED!!!*

Just some things to think about... :il:

WOW!

That sure is a lot of information to sift through!!!

I would not be able to have much comment because it would take so long to read and research and prepare a rebuttal.

How about shortening up any further posts for me?

[Guest charlie]

Good question, Charlie. It doesn't. It's a man-made doctrine.

Thank you!

I didn't realize this until a few years ago; I set out to prove to my prebysterian wife once and for all that she needed to be baptized again. She'd been baptized as a baby. This had been a sore point between us for over 20 yrs (my fault, I'm the one that made it an issue). I got my pad of paper and my pencil and my Bible and started out with my study. .....

I've learn to appreciate the taste of crow.

[Work in Progress]

Hey, HEY!!! Watch that!! I'm a Presby! LOL

Yes, I grew up hearing that also. I can't tell you how much I heard that heresy - "age of accountability". Yikes.

And quit trying to make your wife be baptized again. Don't make me come over there, Charlie. If she was baptized as an infant, according to the covenant God made with His children, then she was done right.

Anyway, even if she was baptized by unbelieving parents just as a religious ritual and nothing more, many churches believe that "re-doing" a baptism is not a good idea because it lessens the sacredness of baptism. God knows her heart.

[Guest charlie]

Hey I quit, I had to <<gulp>> tell her she was right and I was wrong! You know, I'd made such an issue out of this that our kids were never baptized; afraid of getting one of us (me) upset. Since I've come to the realization that I was wrong, they've been baptized in a Prebysterian church, by pouring. When we attend Church now it's Prebysterian. I like it very much; it's nice to be able to attend as a family now when we do go.

I don't believe in re-baptizing unless the person feels they need to. One faith, one baptism imo. But you know, when I attended an Independent Baptist Church...by myself, they wouldn't let me become an official member unless I stood up in front of the congregation, gave a "testimony" as to "when" I was saved and get re-baptized... even though I'd been dunked at age 16. I wouldn't do it. First off, I didn't know exactly "when" I was saved. I believed Jesus died for me way back when I was a little kid and I'd already been dunked.

[ServingHim]

1- Um, I think it means around the time of their baptism...

you're most welcome to YOUR OPINION...

2- So a baby can believe in Jesus? 

I don't know...can they understand that their parents are their parents and that they will always be able to trust them, hopefully?

3- My point exactly.  That's why I pointed out that the Bible requires repentance in advance of baptism.  (Actually, it's in the verse that you quoted to me!)

ok...so at what age is a child 'acceptable' for receiving 'baptism'? Don't children say what you WANT them to say in order to get something...what IS that age of reason?

4- Sure it can.  But in the context that you quoted, it says that the family was instructed before being baptized.  Can a newborn be instructed, in the middle of the night?

I'm not sure what your point is...seems like your grasping at straws?

5- Yup.    But again, that wasn't the context here.  It says they listened to the instruction of Paul and Silas, before their baptism.

yes, but nowhere do they exclude infants...

8- Absolutely not.  My belief regarding baptism is well-known in here.

and your most welcome to have that belief. I disagree with you, and my beliefs are firmly grounded in scriptures AND mostly from what the early church taught...I hope we can AGREE to DISAGREE.

The vast majority of Protestant churches have an official doctrine that says baptism is for the remission of sins. 

TRUE! do you believe that it is 'regeneration' as well? Or is it just a head-thought that one is 'forgiven'.

10- Millions?  I sure hope I can sell that many...

why, are you interested in making a lot of money?

11- Me?  "Authority?"      I'm just a wretched sinner, like you.

yet you desire a book that 'teaches' things that MIGHT NOT be true. How do you know FOR SURE with God as you witness that you are WRONG about infant baptism? I know MANY well-renowned scholars who would take you down in this discussion and vehemently point to you that infant baptism IS the will of God too...so you say they're all wrong...why would I or anyone else believe that YOU have it right...is it because you say 'The Bible told me so'? :oww:

[ServingHim]

This includes Methodists,

METHODIST Belief in Infant Baptism

Presbyterians

PRESBYTERIAN belief in Infant Baptism

(some) Baptists,

I can't find one group of 'Baptists' that agree on anything...sorry.

Anglicans,

Anglican's apparently believe in infant baptism as regenerational! WHY DELAY?

Episcopalians,

VIEWS of Episcopalians re:Infant Baptism...they DO IT!

Brethren,

INFORMATION on the 'Brethren'

Church of Christ,

THEIR BELIEFS, apparnetly

Mormons,

they follow a man, Joseph smith...don't care what they believe.

(some) Pentecostals,

why not ALL pentecostals

Lutherans,

Mennonites,

Anabaptists,

Puritans,

Reformed,

and the World Council of Churches.

A PROTESTANT'S REVIEW of WHO BELIEVES WHAT RE:INFANT BAPTISM

I'm running out of time! Really not interested in continuing this...did it for 60 pages on another forum. God bless your journey.