Self defense

[Guest shiloh357]

Clearing the fog.

If your life is in danger and you speak the words of faith and GOD honors your words. Then you are justified because GOD has delivered you.

2Ki 1:12

So Elijah answered and said to them, "If I am a man of God, let fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty men." And the fire of God came down from heaven and consumed him and his fifty

Da 6:27

He delivers and rescues, And He works signs and wonders In heaven and on earth, Who has delivered Daniel from the power of the lions.

Da 3:23

And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.

Ac 12:7

Now behold, an angel of the Lord stood by him, and a light shone in the prison; and he struck Peter on the side and raised him up, saying, "Arise quickly!" And his chains fell off his hands.

Ac 14:19

Then Jews from Antioch and Iconium came there; and having persuaded the multitudes, they stoned Paul and dragged him out of the city, supposing him to be dead.

Ac 28:5 But he shook off the creature into the fire and suffered no harm.

6 However, they were expecting that he would swell up or suddenly fall down dead. But after they had looked for a long time and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds and said that he was a god.

If you pick up a knife or gun and do it yourself. You will need to be forgiven all over again. Because you are resorting to what is common to this world. You have chosen to be of the world and not of CHRIST.

Lu 9:24

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

Joh 18:36

Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here."

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug:

First of all, immediate danger requires immediate actions. Faith and protecting your wife are not exclusive concepts. If your wife or family is under attack and you stand there and just quote Bible verses and they die as a result of your inaction that is tantamount to murder, even if you were not the one doing the deed.

It is no different than those who refuse medical treatment for their children because they have "faith" that God will heal. That is criminal neglect and is rightly punishable under our current legal system.

God has given us faith but he has also given us common sense. I have the faith that God will give me everything I need to protect the wife He will give me one day. I believe that as if I have to ever rise up in her defense, that it is God who will teach my hands to war and my fingers to fight. I would rather die in a righteous cause, than to live the rest of my life as coward.

If a man stands by in "faith" and lets his wife be raped or otherwise harmed, he does not deserve to have a wife, and should be prosecuted and convicted. If she dies as a result of her injuries, then he should tried as a murderer.

[Guest idied2]

3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

James 4:

2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.

3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Mt 21:21

Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

Where is your faith? In the means of this world? In CHRIST?

Mt 7:21

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Mt 7:14

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug:

[Guest shiloh357]

Where is your faith? In the means of this world?  In CHRIST?

My faith is in Christ, and I know by faith that HE will give me all that I need to provide for my family's protection. You are wrong in painting that as a lack of faith. You are trying to sound spiritual but what you are talking about is presumption. The idea that we can sit back and God will just pull our fat out of the fire whenever we are in trouble is just not scriptural.

I guess from your perspective, I should not have a savings account, I should not have fire insurance, I should not have health insurance, I should not have car insurance or homeowners insurance since those are means of protection and that would be trusting in the world, right?

In your book is taking a sick child to the doctor a lack of faith? Is that trusting in the world?

God expects us to put our faith in Him, but He also expects us to use wisdom in preparing for emergencies. Proverbs is full of verses talking about using wisdom in our everyday lives. God has given both faith and practical intelligence. The abandonment of commonsense is not "spiritual." It is irresponsible.

[larryt]

Those that loose debates resort to lies, conjecture, innuendo, name calling, etc.  If you cannot debate why do you bother?  I believe thing you do not and the same from your point of view.  I have tried to be civil, but I am not a pacifist as some of you believe.  You do not want to debate on the merits.  For your position is on sand and when the winds come the house built on sand will fall.  You do the same they did to Noah before the flood, to Jeremiah before the babylonians came, and before Jesus comes some of you may well be vomited out of His mouth as lukewam water.

I had a difference with some people here and tried to go to them.  I will not persue any further the differences.

I have offered you very civil debate and you do not respond to me. I have shown that that Scriptures you use have been taken out of context, in that you are applying them to an issue that they were not addressing. I have shown that you are confusing the issue by using Scriptures that refer patient sufferage of persecution as commentary against self-defense.

You are the one who has lost the debate. You failed to make your case and instead started casting out demons called "Yosemite Sam." What is that about?

Thank you for the civil debate. Please be patient and I will try to answer you questions.

As to the Yosemiti Sam incident were you able to read all the PMs I wrote or are you basing your statement on what was revealed in this thread? If Gary cannot get out of his YS persona then he is demonized. and the demon needs to be cast out. If he can let him prove it and answer me in a PM in an understandable manor and we could resolve thing. I don't understand cartoonese. I try to do as best I can with english.

[larryt]

repeated below

Edited September 6, 2004 by larryt

[larryt]

uhhhhhh??Shiloh---friend--buddy--pal--Amigo--Brother----uhhh??he sent me a PM trying to "Cast the spirit of yosemite-sam" outta ME  Among other E-Vile spirits encapsulated in my "Deceived-demon-possed-body"--I---Reckon? -ohhh-woe is me---woe--woe- -woe

Ahhhh... OK.

I went back read more of the threads that were posted overnight a little closer. You guys have been busy!! Yeah, the "hyper-spiritual" types really do know how to make fools of themselves, don't they?

So what do you mean by hyperspiritual. Is not that name calling and put downish? And you call me a fool.

Mt 5:22  But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Are you in danger of judgement?

LT

[Guest idied2]

The ways of this world anul the teachings of CHRIST. "Commonsense" is just that "common" of the world and not of CHRIST.

Common sense tells us That there is no GOD because you can't use your fleshly senses to detect HIM. But if we have faith that GOD is real why can't we have faith that every thing he said is true?

Mt 6:25

Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

Mt 6:30

Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?

Mt 8:26

But He said to them, "Why are you fearful, O you of little faith?" Then He arose and rebuked the winds and the sea, and there was a great calm.

Mt 14:31

And immediately Jesus stretched out His hand and caught him, and said to him, "O you of little faith, why did you doubt?"

Colossians 3:5-7

5 Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.

6 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience,

7 in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug:

[Guest shiloh357]

The ways of this world anul the teachings of CHRIST. "Commonsense" is just that "common" of the world and not of CHRIST.

Common sense tells us That there is no GOD because you can't use your fleshly senses to detect HIM. But if we have faith that GOD is real why can't we have faith that every thing he said is true?

No, commonsense is practical wisdom. It is practical wisdom that one should defend their families when in immediate danger. Practical wisdom is all over the Bible especially in Proverbs. You need to study that out.

God has never promised supernatural intervention in every situation. One should not presume that God will do this or that when He has not promised such. That is called testing the Lord, and Jesus said that we are not to do that.

Many faithful prophets of God met their fate at the hands of evil men. God did not supernaturally intervene then.

A man that won't defend his family and do whatever it takes is NOT much of a man and does not deserve a family.

[Guest shiloh357]

Those that loose debates resort to lies, conjecture, innuendo, name calling, etc.

[Guest idied2]

Joh 14:12

"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.

Mt 12:30

He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug: