Self defense

September 6, 2004

Joh 14:12
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.

Mt 12:30
He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug:

It would be helpful if you would actually engage the conversation and not just quote verse you THINK address the issue. Please drop the "spiritual" facade and just talk to me.

September 6, 2004

Here is what happened to the author of proverbs.

1 Kings 11:1-8

1 But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites;

2 Of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love.

3 And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart.

4 For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father.

5 For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom F84 the abomination of the Ammonites.

6 And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father.

7 Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon.

8 And likewise did he for all his strange wives, which burnt incense and sacrificed unto their gods.

Mt 6:29

And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

Lu 12:27

Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

Solomon with all his great knowledge could not use it to save himself.

Christ came with the real knowledge.

Please let CHRIST be your teacher. Not solomon

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug:

larryt · September 6, 2004

Those that loose debates resort to lies, conjecture, innuendo, name calling, etc. If you cannot debate why do you bother? I believe thing you do not and the same from your point of view. I have tried to be civil, but I am not a pacifist as some of you believe. You do not want to debate on the merits. For your position is on sand and when the winds come the house built on sand will fall. You do the same they did to Noah before the flood, to Jeremiah before the babylonians came, and before Jesus comes some of you may well be vomited out of His mouth as lukewam water.

I had a difference with some people here and tried to go to them. I will not persue any further the differences.

I have offered you very civil debate and you do not respond to me. I have shown that that Scriptures you use have been taken out of context, in that you are applying them to an issue that they were not addressing. I have shown that you are confusing the issue by using Scriptures that refer patient sufferage of persecution as commentary against self-defense.

You are the one who has lost the debate. You failed to make your case and instead started casting out demons called "Yosemite Sam." What is that about?

Thank you for the civil debate. Please be patient and I will try to answer you questions.

As to the Yosemiti Sam incident were you able to read all the PMs I wrote or are you basing your statement on what was revealed in this thread? If Gary cannot get out of his YS persona then he is demonized. and the demon needs to be cast out. If he can let him prove it and answer me in a PM in an understandable manor and we could resolve thing. I don't understand cartoonese. I try to do as best I can with english.

Gary is hardly demonized. That is just how he talks on the boards. That is just him. You have not been here long enough to get used to how he interacts. You need to get past it. You are the one with the problem here, not Gary. He can be quick tempered at times, but He is never unreasonable if offered the proper courtesy.

Frankly, If you PM'ed me and tried casting a "demon" out of me, I would think you were crazy. I am not calling you a fool. Just pointing out that you are making yourself look foolish by chasing this rabbit trail instead of responding to the legitimacy of self-defense and the defense of one's family.

Did you not read all the PMs? And if Gary cannot extricate himself from the persona he is demonized. That is an if. I have not seen anything to the contrary. That is not just how he is. He got that way by taking on a cattoon personality. I originally tried to take care of this in the PM going directly to him and he would not respond as a civil person. I dropped the issue and tried not to respond to him in the thread until they brought up the PM in the thread. I am willing to reconcile with Gary. I don't reconcile with demons though.

LT

September 6, 2004

Lt, Gary has no problems dropping the Yosemite Sam stuff. I know him personally and that's why I asked you to stop PM'ing them with the disturbing PM's you were sending, attempting to cast out demons from him via PM. I know about the PM's because I'm friends with them, not because they are public knowledge, other than the piece that was posted in this thread.

BobTriez · September 6, 2004

I don't reconcile with demons though.
LT

Let's NOT do this ok ?

Call me trigger happy ( ) but this is getting outta hand and I'm a half second away from locking this thread. It's getting personal now; and then I ask " Where's Jesus ? " Hmmmmm ? He is altogether lovely :il:

Keep it civil and follow Matthew 18:15-17 when you have an issue with someone. By taking it back here you skipped over step 2 of Jesus' conflict resolution guidelines....

Everyone still ok ?

September 6, 2004

Oh, I forgot. If Gary replied in a less-than-sweet way, it's because a perfect stranger was telling him he was demonized and attempting to cast out a long variety of demons from him. This would upset anyone, I would think, don't you?

larryt · September 6, 2004

Many faithful prophets of God met their fate at the hands of evil men. God did not supernaturally intervene then.

Q: Should they have taken up arms to defend themselves?

September 6, 2004

Here is what happened to the author of proverbs.
1 Kings 11:1-8
1 But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites;
2 Of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love.
3 And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart.
4 For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father.
5 For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom F84 the abomination of the Ammonites.
6 And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father.
7 Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon.
8 And likewise did he for all his strange wives, which burnt incense and sacrificed unto their gods.

Mt 6:29
And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

Lu 12:27
Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
Solomon with all his great knowledge could not use it to save himself.
Christ came with the real knowledge.
Please let CHRIST be your teacher. Not solomon

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug:

That does not negate the wisdom in the book of Proverbs.

All of Scripture is given for our learning, even the stuff written by Solomon. You need to study more and stop discarding parts of Scripture.

The Scriptures teach us to use practical wisdom in conjunction with Faith. Whether you like it or not, commonsense is a gift from God, and he expects us to use it.

Maybe that is not "spiritual" enough, for some folks.

At least my family will not have a coward for father, who is too "spiritual" to protect them.

September 6, 2004

I don't reconcile with demons though.
LT

Let's NOT do this ok ?

Call me trigger happy ( ) but this is getting outta hand and I'm a half second away from locking this thread. It's getting personal now; and then I ask " Where's Jesus ? " Hmmmmm ? He is altogether lovely :il:

Keep it civil and follow Matthew 18:15-17 when you have an issue with someone. By taking it back here you skipped over step 2 of Jesus' conflict resolution guidelines....

Everyone still ok ?

I'm okay, Bob. Not mad or upset or anything.

September 6, 2004

Many faithful prophets of God met their fate at the hands of evil men. God did not supernaturally intervene then.
Q: Should they have taken up arms to defend themselves?

They were suffering persecution. That is a different issue as I have been trying to say many times. You are confusing persecution with legitimate crminal activity.

Furthermore, I was only pointing out that despite your stories of supernatural intervention, God does not always do stuff like that, and that we cannot just assume that things will always turn out that way.