John 16:13

[Botz]

I have always taken note that the Apostle Paul was away with the L-rd for 14 years before truly re-emerging on the scene, and his testimony was that He was not taught by man. Probably some of the main hinderances to being whole-hearted given over to the guidence of the Holy Spirit, come from the teachings of man.

Perspective - Paul was raised under the teaching of the Torah, though, as a devout Pharisee, before this time. So it is incorrect to portray his knowledge of Scripture as having been void of human teaching.

A lot of people have come through this Board with some strange doctrines and strange priorities in what they chose to converse on who claimed having been taught by the Holy Spirit and not from man.

Sorry Neb, only just saw this reply from about a month ago.

I think I need to clarify....I was not implying that everything Paul knew of Torah was purely from the Spirit, I thought that was a 'given'.

Yes Paul was extremely well versed in Torah, and knew the teachings under the Old Covenant inside out...but when he came to faith in Yeshua, all the knowledge he had gained, needed to be sifted through the guidence of the Holy Spirit...he knew the Letter, but not the Spirit, and his own testimony to that fact is that this revelation knowledge did not come to him through the teachings of men, even his original teachers of Torah, but through the divine channel of G-d Himself.

Galatians 1:11 For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. 12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

13 For you have heard of my former manner of life in Judaism, how I used to persecute the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it; 14 and I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries among my countrymen, being more extremely zealous for my ancestral traditions. 15 But when God, who had set me apart even from my mother

[Bold Believer]

As for the Romans 10:14 passage, it uses a word which I had not heard before for preacher. The word is kerysso which would best be translated herald. So then the question being asked is "how would someone hear without a herald calling out to proclaim the Gospel", not "how will they hear with being preached to."

[sdktlk]

As for the Romans 10:14 passage, it uses a word which I had not heard before for preacher. The word is kerysso which would best be translated herald. So then the question being asked is "how would someone hear without a herald calling out to proclaim the Gospel", not "how will they hear with being preached to."

True. Romans 10:14 speaks to evangelism, not teaching. Not all evangelists are teachers and not all teachers are evangelists. Though the Lord may use someone in both offices combined it has to be an operation of the Spirit and not the will of man.

[Jesusplusnothing]

I have always taken note that the Apostle Paul was away with the L-rd for 14 years before truly re-emerging on the scene, and his testimony was that He was not taught by man. Probably some of the main hinderances to being whole-hearted given over to the guidence of the Holy Spirit, come from the teachings of man.

Perspective - Paul was raised under the teaching of the Torah, though, as a devout Pharisee, before this time. So it is incorrect to portray his knowledge of Scripture as having been void of human teaching.

A lot of people have come through this Board with some strange doctrines and strange priorities in what they chose to converse on who claimed having been taught by the Holy Spirit and not from man.

Jesus is the Christ.

Paul was not raised under the teaching of the Torah, Saul was.

Paul said that his teaching did not come from man.

Looking at Paul, as still being Saul, seems to be how you came to the above false conclusion.

They were different men. Saul the old. Paul the new.

Having had a similar born again experience, I fully believe what Paul said about the writings of Paul. 1 cor 14:37-38

Praise the Lord!

Edited February 26, 2011 by Jesusplusnothing

[sdktlk]

I have always taken note that the Apostle Paul was away with the L-rd for 14 years before truly re-emerging on the scene, and his testimony was that He was not taught by man. Probably some of the main hinderances to being whole-hearted given over to the guidence of the Holy Spirit, come from the teachings of man.

Perspective - Paul was raised under the teaching of the Torah, though, as a devout Pharisee, before this time. So it is incorrect to portray his knowledge of Scripture as having been void of human teaching.

A lot of people have come through this Board with some strange doctrines and strange priorities in what they chose to converse on who claimed having been taught by the Holy Spirit and not from man.

Sorry Neb, only just saw this reply from about a month ago.

I think I need to clarify....I was not implying that everything Paul knew of Torah was purely from the Spirit, I thought that was a 'given'.

Yes Paul was extremely well versed in Torah, and knew the teachings under the Old Covenant inside out...but when he came to faith in Yeshua, all the knowledge he had gained, needed to be sifted through the guidence of the Holy Spirit...he knew the Letter, but not the Spirit, and his own testimony to that fact is that this revelation knowledge did not come to him through the teachings of men, even his original teachers of Torah, but through the divine channel of G-d Himself.

Galatians 1:11 For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. 12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

13 For you have heard of my former manner of life in Judaism, how I used to persecute the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it; 14 and I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries among my countrymen, being more extremely zealous for my ancestral traditions. 15 But when God, who had set me apart even from my mother's womb and called me through His grace, was pleased 16 to reveal His Son in me so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with flesh and blood, 17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went away to Arabia, and returned once more to Damascus.

This is often the crux of a Believers life...if their testimony of their Saviour comes through personal relationship and revelation, or is accessed largely through teaching, knowledge and intellect. In the former, there is 'utter certainty', in the latter there is no 'inner witness'.

For me, Paul is probably one of the most amazing men ever to have walked the earth, and what we owe to him and his dogged determination to fulfill his destiny and walk the path stretched out before him is a testimony to the extent of the grace of G-d active in this mans life. Time and time again I wrestle with some of the concepts he patiently tries to get across, but I know that eventually if I can just see what he is getting at it will be as much a revelation to me as it was to him, and can be life-changing and so fulfilling spiritually, often making clear and solid a shadow of Torah teaching, and equipping me in various areas of my life.

I believe one could even say that indirectly, through the Holy Spirit, Paul still imparts spiritual gifts and blessings, such is the extent of his calling and power of his ministry. So often when reading Pauls writings, it is as if he is alive, and teaching me directly, I love to sit under his ministry, and I honour this dear man of G-d as both an example and mentor....his whole heart was to see people saved and built up in the most Holy Faith.

Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, because your faith is being proclaimed throughout the whole world. 9 For God, whom I serve in my spirit in the preaching of the gospel of His Son, is my witness as to how unceasingly I make mention of you, 10 always in my prayers making request, if perhaps now at last by the will of God I may succeed in coming to you. 11 For I long to see you so that I may impart some spiritual gift to you, that you may be established; 12 that is, that I may be encouraged together with you while among you, each of us by the other's faith, both yours and mine. NASB

Not to labour the point....but in this passage I love the word 'perhaps' in verse 10...it is the Greek word 'pos' (not so clear in KJV) and demonstrates that Paul would not operate out of presumption, but lets G-d know his petitions...he doesn't get into unreality, but explains clearly that it is something he has prayed about often, but has not yet been assured is possible or expedient. Even in wanting to bless others by coming to them, he is humble enough and encouraging enough to demonstrate that it is a two-way thing and that he will in return receive something from them. His attitude could teach many of us a thing or two.

Boltz, I hate to be an Amen-er, but, again AMEN! And it is Amen to all that you said in your post. But, commenting specifically on Paul's attitude, Paul would not dare to move in any direction of his own volition, but only as he was allowed of the Lord to do so. A very clear picture of, "not my will but thy will be done."

[nighthiker]

John 16:13

However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

I believe the above scripture. I

[Guest Butero]

I Deeply and Sincerely say this is in total Love Butero, and I highly respect your entire statement.

However, I do believe that Romans 10:14 tells us something about preachers

"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?"

Some people, like those in parts of Peru, don't have a Bible... So they solely depend on missionaries (sent forth by God's Spirit) who do.

You see, (I'm not saying you have) we must not overlook any particular way that God may send forth His Word.

^Especially in this circumstance.

However, I do get your point Butero, we must not rely solely on Preachers, Tv, Radio ect.

Sometimes we have to go to His Word to get some REAL answers

His Word IS the Main Source of our Faith. Nothing else can tell you otherwise.

- In Love, S2S.

I don't disagree with you either, but you are comparing an evangelist or missionary to a teacher. While we need teachers, the problem comes in when people take every word they say as true and never question it. We need to spend time in the Bible ourselves and make sure what we are hearing matches up. If we can't understand something, instead of turning to the commentary, we can ask the Spirit for guidance.

[sdktlk]

I have always taken note that the Apostle Paul was away with the L-rd for 14 years before truly re-emerging on the scene, and his testimony was that He was not taught by man. Probably some of the main hinderances to being whole-hearted given over to the guidence of the Holy Spirit, come from the teachings of man.

Perspective - Paul was raised under the teaching of the Torah, though, as a devout Pharisee, before this time. So it is incorrect to portray his knowledge of Scripture as having been void of human teaching.

A lot of people have come through this Board with some strange doctrines and strange priorities in what they chose to converse on who claimed having been taught by the Holy Spirit and not from man.

Jesus is the Christ.

Paul was not raised under the teaching of the Torah, Saul was.

Paul said that his teaching did not come from man.

Looking at Paul, as still being Saul, seems to be how you came to the above false conclusion.

They were different men. Saul the old. Paul the new.

Having had a similar born again experience, I fully believe what Paul said about the writings of Paul. 1 cor 14:37-38

Praise the Lord!

Excellent seeing. "Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual." (1Cor 15:46)

[Botz]

I have always taken note that the Apostle Paul was away with the L-rd for 14 years before truly re-emerging on the scene, and his testimony was that He was not taught by man. Probably some of the main hinderances to being whole-hearted given over to the guidence of the Holy Spirit, come from the teachings of man.

Perspective - Paul was raised under the teaching of the Torah, though, as a devout Pharisee, before this time. So it is incorrect to portray his knowledge of Scripture as having been void of human teaching.

A lot of people have come through this Board with some strange doctrines and strange priorities in what they chose to converse on who claimed having been taught by the Holy Spirit and not from man.

Jesus is the Christ.

Paul was not raised under the teaching of the Torah, Saul was.

Paul said that his teaching did not come from man.

Looking at Paul, as still being Saul, seems to be how you came to the above false conclusion.

They were different men. Saul the old. Paul the new.

Having had a similar born again experience, I fully believe what Paul said about the writings of Paul. 1 cor 14:37-38

Praise the Lord!

I don't think you can really draw those conclusions J+1...As a Roman citizen, Paul was his given name, as a Jew, Saul was his Jewish name....he is still referred to as Saul on occassion when he had believed on Jesus, but it seems it was more expedient as his ministry was largely to the Gentiles that he was known by his Gentile name Paul....it probably also opened up more doors for him in the places that he went.

[UncleAbee]

John 16:13

However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

I believe the above scripture. I'm not sure how to ask this question. Seems the body of Christ is doing splits on different issues of scripture. Whether it's healing, prosperity, prophesy, tongues and the many other issues in the bible. Are we not hearing the Spirit properly? Why do we argue so?

We talked about this in Sunday School this morning...... most all of us read the Bible through filters that we've developed over the years. A Church Denominational teachings, or who we listen to on TV or read different books on the Bible.

Those who don't have filters often take short pieces of scripture out of context and make them fit with other short pieces of scripture out of context and create things that are not real.....

There are many reasons this happens, but ti almost always boils down to taking a thought or idea and getting the Bible to agree with that idea instead of just reading or listening to the Word and letting it speak to us.

It also hurts when Paul writes sentences that are so complex and long that it's takes a bit of reasoning and knowledge of the english language and punctuation to really understand what the Bible is saying........

I agree with what was written here. Christianity is a taught religion (John 6:45). Our biases interfere with what is being taught and how we teach. In order to really learn Christ you have to divorce yourself from your cultural dogma. Denominationalism keeps us trapped in these dogmas.