Jeremiah 4:23-26

[Guest]

As I was doing my Bible study this morning, I began reading the Book of Jeremiah. As I got to Chapter 4, I read about the vision given to him by God, beginning in verse 23 through 26. He spoke of seeing the Earth, without form, and void. He spoke of the mountains trembling and the hills moving. Then he talked about there being no man nor birds present. Finally, in verse 26, he spoke spoke of desolation and cities broken down by God's anger.

Jeremiah 4:23-26 "I beheld the earth, and indeed it was without form, and void; and the heavens, they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and indeed they trembled, and all the hills moved back and forth. I beheld, and indeed there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens had fled. I beheld, and indeed the fruitful land was a wilderness, and all its cities were broken down at the presence of the LORD, by His fierce anger." (NKJV)

I'm thinking "What does this mean?" Do these few verses give us a clue as to the Creation question of there being a period of time between Genesis 1:1 and 1:3? Do they refer to the chaos of the original Earth after the rebellion of Lucifer? If so, than Jeremiah 4:23 would apply to the first part of Genesis 1:2. Is this what the Holy Spirit had in mind as an example of what was going to happen to Judah and Jerusalem at the hands of the Babylonians?

In verse 24, is this a description of what took place on the Earth at the time of Lucifer's rebellion, which is described in Isaiah 14:12-15? "

[Guest shiloh357]

As I was doing my Bible study this morning, I began reading the Book of Jeremiah. As I got to Chapter 4, I read about the vision given to him by God, beginning in verse 23 through 26. He spoke of seeing the Earth, without form, and void. He spoke of the mountains trembling and the hills moving. Then he talked about there being no man nor birds present. Finally, in verse 26, he spoke spoke of desolation and cities broken down by God's anger.

Jeremiah 4:23-26 "I beheld the earth, and indeed it was without form, and void; and the heavens, they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and indeed they trembled, and all the hills moved back and forth. I beheld, and indeed there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens had fled. I beheld, and indeed the fruitful land was a wilderness, and all its cities were broken down at the presence of the LORD, by His fierce anger." (NKJV)

I'm thinking "What does this mean?" Do these few verses give us a clue as to the Creation question of there being a period of time between Genesis 1:1 and 1:3? Do they refer to the chaos of the original Earth after the rebellion of Lucifer? If so, than Jeremiah 4:23 would apply to the first part of Genesis 1:2. Is this what the Holy Spirit had in mind as an example of what was going to happen to Judah and Jerusalem at the hands of the Babylonians?

In verse 24, is this a description of what took place on the Earth at the time of Lucifer's rebellion, which is described in Isaiah 14:12-15? "

[j102]

no offence but that doesn't make sense to me and it sounds kinda nutty. if there was a pre-adamic race why would god wait all these years later to say something about it? also as i see it that takes our focus away from jesus and onto things that are it its best mere speculation.

[Rick-Parker]

You need to read the context. The context is the judgment of Judea. He uses the Gen 1:1 verbage to describe the desolation of Judea. The context has nothing to do with Lucifer's rebellion.

Furthermore, there is nothing at all that occurred between Gen. 1:1 and Gen. 1:2 Gen. 1:1 is just a synopsis of the information that was to follow. The gap theory cannot be supported by any real Scriptural corroboration.

I was reading in context, I think I did mention the impending destruction from Babylon. I don't ascribe to the "gap" theory, but was intrigued by the wording and put forward a question for thought. As far as "real" scriptural corroboration, I guess the same can be said about the Trinity and the Rapture, both which are never specifically mentioned, but can be understood by the verbiage used (both of which I believe in), yet is disputed by many. Perhaps instead of telling me what I "need" to do, you could just put forward your thoughts as to why you know that the Scriptures are not relevant in the context postulated. There are many places in Scripture where the Holy Spirit, in His prophecies, has a dual application to the near times and the End Times. There are many occasions where He is talking about a person of the near/soon to occur event and the times of the Anti-Christ. Why could it not be the case here, where He is telling the Jews of their certain fate, unless they repented, while also giving an insight into another event that is not yet understood? There is always a reason why His words are used in a certain way and at a certain time. We do not always understand their meanings.

no offence but that doesn't make sense to me and it sounds kinda nutty. if there was a pre-adamic race why would god wait all these years later to say something about it? also as i see it that takes our focus away from jesus and onto things that are it its best mere speculation.

None taken. But, there are a lot of things we will not know about, because God knew that it was not important in the path to salvation, until we get to Heaven. There is a lot of mystery contained within the beginning and the end of God's Word. I sure look forward to that time, when we finally understand God as He wants us to understand Him and all the events from the beginning until the time of our rein with Christ and we are no longer restrained by time! Praise the Lord!!!!

[nebula]

The way I read Genesis 1 -

1. 
   
   
2. God created the heavens
   
3. God created the Earth
   
4. The Earth (that He created) was formless and void, darkness was over the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God hovered over the waters (that were there on the Earth)
   
5. Then God said, "Let there be light."

How that creation of the heavens and the Earth took place and how long is not explained. Was the Earth created "formless and void..." or if this something that came about (i.e word-wide disaster like a large asteroid strike) is not explained.

I don't see this as "Gap theory", as if there is a gap between verses. I don't seen "God created" then nothing happened until what is spoken next. I see it as a generalized statement over a past that flowed, not had a separate point A and point B.

As for the proposition of a pre-Adamic race, it makes trying to explain Neanderthals and the like a lot easier, as well as how there could have been a land with name that Cain went to as well as a woman to marry (without having to explain the justification for incest).

Why would the Lord not have mentioned these things in Genesis? Well, why would He need to?

Is it correct thinking? Is it incorrect? I don't know either way, and I doubt it is that big of an issue. There is so very, very much about the history of the Earth that the Lord said nothing about in Scripture. Example, explain with Scripture why there are no marsupials in Africa, Europe, and Asia?

Let people speculate, and let it be unresolved. It won't affect salvation and nor one's perspective on the inerrancy of Scripture.

[sdktlk]

The way I read Genesis 1 -

1. God created the heavens
2. God created the Earth
3. The Earth (that He created) was formless and void, darkness was over the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God hovered over the waters (that were there on the Earth)
4. Then God said, "Let there be light."

How that creation of the heavens and the Earth took place and how long is not explained. Was the Earth created "formless and void..." or if this something that came about (i.e word-wide disaster like a large asteroid strike) is not explained.

I don't see this as "Gap theory", as if there is a gap between verses. I don't seen "God created" then nothing happened until what is spoken next. I see it as a generalized statement over a past that flowed, not had a separate point A and point B.

As for the proposition of a pre-Adamic race, it makes trying to explain Neanderthals and the like a lot easier, as well as how there could have been a land with name that Cain went to as well as a woman to marry (without having to explain the justification for incest).

Why would the Lord not have mentioned these things in Genesis? Well, why would He need to?

Is it correct thinking? Is it incorrect? I don't know either way, and I doubt it is that big of an issue. There is so very, very much about the history of the Earth that the Lord said nothing about in Scripture. Example, explain with Scripture why there are no marsupials in Africa, Europe, and Asia?

Let people speculate, and let it be unresolved. It won't affect salvation and nor one's perspective on the inerrancy of Scripture.

There are several references using the term "there was no man" in Scripture. We can see these in Isaiah chapters 41, 50, 59, which have contexts that are similar to the passage in Jeremiah. Not to get into the implications of all these passages, but, overall it seems to point to the fact that there was no one seeking after the Lord in Truth. Therefore, NO MAN.

[j102]

as i was reading the verse that says the earth was void and without form and spirit of god hovered above the face of the earth, an interenting thought came to me.

most scientist agree that planetary bodies are formed as gasses out in space start to condense and other matter in space that also gets stuck in the giant gas clouds and that gravity causes the gasses to condense into solid matter and eventully a planet is formed

well scientist are still trying to understand gravity and still dont know what causes it.... maybe the spirit of god has something to do with it?

[Guest shiloh357]

As far as "real" scriptural corroboration, I guess the same can be said about the Trinity and the Rapture, both which are never specifically mentioned, but can be understood by the verbiage used (both of which I believe in), yet is disputed by many.

No, that would not be the same.

Perhaps instead of telling me what I "need" to do, you could just put forward your thoughts as to why you know that the Scriptures are not relevant in the context postulated.

I already have. I stated that the context was God's judgment on Judea. That is why they do not address the state of the earth in Gen. 1:2. God is simply using that imagery to make a point to the people of that time period. It really is not more complicated or mysterious than that.

There are many places in Scripture where the Holy Spirit, in His prophecies, has a dual application to the near times and the End Times.

Yes, and the Bible tells us when that type of application applies. It is not something arbitrary that we can employ on our own.

There are many occasions where He is talking about a person of the near/soon to occur event and the times of the Anti-Christ. Why could it not be the case here, where He is telling the Jews of their certain fate, unless they repented, while also giving an insight into another event that is not yet understood?

If that were the intent, it would say so. The Bible is self-interpreting. God does not leave it up to us to fill in the spaces.

There is always a reason why His words are used in a certain way and at a certain time. We do not always understand their meanings.

Which is why we should not look for hidden meanings. Those things that are hidden will be revealed at the time the Lord has set for them to be revealed.

[Fez]

as i was reading the verse that says the earth was void and without form and spirit of god hovered above the face of the earth, an interenting thought came to me.

most scientist agree that planetary bodies are formed as gasses out in space start to condense and other matter in space that also gets stuck in the giant gas clouds and that gravity causes the gasses to condense into solid matter and eventully a planet is formed

well scientist are still trying to understand gravity and still dont know what causes it.... maybe the spirit of god has something to do with it?

well scientist are still trying to understand gravity and still dont know what causes it.... maybe the spirit of god has something to do with it?

I know it is not scriptural, but I like to think that scientists don't understand it because it may be too simple.

I think gravity is the "glue" God made to hold everything together.

[j102]

as i was reading the verse that says the earth was void and without form and spirit of god hovered above the face of the earth, an interenting thought came to me.

most scientist agree that planetary bodies are formed as gasses out in space start to condense and other matter in space that also gets stuck in the giant gas clouds and that gravity causes the gasses to condense into solid matter and eventully a planet is formed

well scientist are still trying to understand gravity and still dont know what causes it.... maybe the spirit of god has something to do with it?

well scientist are still trying to understand gravity and still dont know what causes it.... maybe the spirit of god has something to do with it?

I know it is not scriptural, but I like to think that scientists don't understand it because it may be too simple.

I think gravity is the "glue" God made to hold everything together.

scripture says that it is the power of god that holds all of creation together