death: a sneak peak into the afterlife?

[enoob57]

I really don't know what all the fuss is over anyway. Proof? We can't have faith if we have proof? That's going to be a bit hard, I think. We know the spiritual realm exists because of many reasons. For one, it is written. Over and over, it is written in God's word. Another, that small still voice inside us. When the Holy Spirit speaks to us that should be proof of a spiritual realm, of something much greater than this physical life. When we sit and beat our chests, "forgive me Lord, a sinner." Can we come to the realization alone that we have sinned against God or is it through conviction brought about by the wooing of the Holy Spirit?

But the big "proof" is the resurrection of Christ. The eye witnesses. Those who knew Him, ate with Him, walked with Him, fished with Him. They saw Him die, and they saw Him afterwards. Where they again ate with Him, walked with Him. Why do you say we have to believe blindly, with no "proof?" God gave us proof, from the parting of the red sea to the raising up from the cross. It's if we choose to believe that is the question. The big question isn't on whether or not heaven exists, of course it does, but on if you believe that Jesus is the Son of God. "Who do you say that I am?"

I don't know if these claims are coming from a real, valid experience that the Lord chose to do for the individual, but I don't discount it at all because it would provide "proof." I don't need proof, nor does any believer. We already have that. That's why it is written that some will not believe even if they see the "proof" because they are/were aware of it but chose to not believe.

"For now we see through a glass darkly" is a beautiful, hopeful part of scripture. However, even if someone were granted a glimpse of the eternal, thatwould not fulfill the the second part that we would know "even as we are known." God knows our heart far better than we do, and knows our full thoughts and deeds and intents. He knows us better than we know ourselves. A glimpse will not give us that knowledge. Or of how or why He did this or that.

I do think we need to test the spirits, for many make claims just for attention. But the fruit should reveal the truth.

My 2 cents.

Peace, family.

I will give all that I have... even my life for what you have said here! God bless His Words within you Sister... Love Steven

[Guest man]

Perhaps you should explain your condemnation.

I'm not condemning anyone. I'm not even condemning the boy. I'm sure he seen something, I just don't think it was heaven.

On another note; Can a Kingdom remain a Kingdom if it is divided?

That would depend on whos kingdom you're talking about.

You're good at this stuff man.

So satan will testify about the Glory of God when he is about deceit and division?

Yes.

2 Corinthians 11

12 But what I do, I will also continue to do, that I may cut off the opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the things of which they boast.

13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ.

14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.

15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.

[Guest man]

man,

let's examine the scripture you've given.

2Th 2:11

And for this cause God shall send them a strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

For this cause; what cause?

This cause;

2Th 2:10

And with all deception of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Them that perish are the object of the deception and whom are being deceived.

Is that verse only referencing the typical nonbeliever or atheist? I don't believe it is, but if it is, why? Why cause a stronger nonbelief in someone that doesn't believe to begin with? And if it is only nonbelievers that God is causing to believe the lie, who is left to wage war against the beast?

So many questions.

We know full well that nothing shall seperate us (We the believers) from the Love of God;

Ro 8:38

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

Ro 8:39

Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creation, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

and;

Ro 8:1

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The born again believer in Christ Jesus who has received the Love of the Truth in Christ Jesus has escaped condemnation and the deception spoken about in 2nd Thess. that is being sent by God.

How are we born again and saved?

Ro 10:9

That if you shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be saved.

Ro 5:1

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Those same verses can be found in the bible of the Mormons and the Jehovah Witness.

God is sending them a strong delusion because they loved not the Truth;

because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved

They would not be Saved.

So whom are you condemning in a slight handed way? Even God is not condemning the believer and those who profess his name in the Word that you provided.

To say "they would not be saved" implies that an attempt was made to save them.

There are people right here in the United States that have never heard the Gospel. People who have heard the name Jesus but couldn't tell you who He is. That's just here in the states, now picture the entire world.

Meanwhile, a Kingdom divided will not stand.

Mt 12:25

And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

Christ said this because the Pharissee's were stating that He and His miracles testified of satan.

Yet;

Lu 9:49

And John answered and said, Teacher, we saw one casting out demons in your name; and we forbade him, because he follows not with us.

Lu 9:50

And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

We should be careful and examine these claims, but if they do not contradict the Glory of God I see no reason to forbid them. Especially when they speak of all of our Blessed Hope.

Peace,

Dave

"A kingdom divided shall not stand". Think about that. When Jesus made that comment, He was talking about the kingdom of God. You can't serve two masters.

When the devil preaches the Gospel, he's preaching a watered down counterfeit gospel. He's not dividing his kingdom. He's staying true to form.

Will the devil's unitied stance against God be enough to sustain his kingdom? Will his kingdom stand?.......no.

[goldust59]

I understand that some people question near death experiences & also why they do. I did for a long time too and still question some of the things being told. I don't know others that have had this experience personally, but I don't just brush off what they say anymore or accuse all them of being deceived. I did however know my Mom very well.

I want to say here that God gets all the glory for what happened with my Mom. Not only did she get peace about the physical act of dying, but some of my family members got a reality check about where they stood with God. Mom was a great witness in her last days with us.

That is why I say that satan had nothing to do with her experience.

[Matthitjah]

Perhaps you should explain your condemnation.

I'm not condemning anyone. I'm not even condemning the boy. I'm sure he seen something, I just don't think it was heaven.

On another note; Can a Kingdom remain a Kingdom if it is divided?

That would depend on whos kingdom you're talking about.

You're good at this stuff man.

So satan will testify about the Glory of God when he is about deceit and division?

Yes.

2 Corinthians 11

12 But what I do, I will also continue to do, that I may cut off the opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the things of which they boast.

13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ.

14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.

15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.

Wrong brother.

Joh 8:44

You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

satan does not give God the Glory nor Christ Jesus. he steals it for himself by marring the Truth.

Yet, if someone testifies to the Glory of God and Christ Jesus in league with God's Word he does so in accords with God's Spirit.

Using your ruler or yardstick. Should we do away with all testimony of the Lord working in our lives even as we see, for instance, folks delivered from spiritual bondage at the laying on of hands and prayer in Christ's name because it could be the working of satan? Christ spoke quite clearly that satan would not cast out satan. Neither will satan glorify God.

As satan transformed himself into a minister of righteousness on this first and particular instance;

Ge 3:4

And the serpent said unto the woman, You shall not surely die:

Ge 3:5

For God does know that in the day you eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and you shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Did he glorify God?

So again, if the testimony of someone seeing the afterlife or the spiritual realm is in league with the Word why should we toss it out? Why is it to be recorded that the individual has no Love of the Truth? Did John the Revelator have no Love of the Truth?

Peace,

Dave

[enoob57]

Well, I'm not one to believe God stopped talking and revealing at the end of the First century, so . . . have to disagree with you here, bro.

Well there are a great many that believe in an open cannon of Scripture. I believe the great seal at the end of Revelation of not adding or taking away-

Rev 22:18-19

18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

NKJV

is for all of God's Word for it was given after John had been shown all things and the eternal state... The last book written in the dated books 90's ^AD thus the assembled cannon of Scripture. I watch the fruit of those in your arena with the open cannon of Scripture and rather unsettling things are being proclaimed in The Name of God and no one can say that's not right cause it is not found in the Bible for it is the later addition coming out and who or what can examine it for authenticity? If we give up the closed cannon of Scripture we give up the only objective source God has given us to determine life and Godliness!

What credentials can we use to determine new stuff that is not found in the Scripture as reality from God? But really the problem of God's Word being a foundation for which to build upon-> if the foundation is not complete how is it ready to build upon? If all God has created with His Word has parameters (your beloved science of the Heavens are laid out in exacting parameters) our world is all bounded within laws and parameters and that being the created reality how do we explain and open ended Word written for a parameterized world?

I am not trying to do anything but reveal my heart to you in this matter and in so doing you might examine my reasoning to see if you see flaws and to point them out... for you as well as I wish to have the mind of God in these matters even if it is to throw away or keep but only to have His Mind in this... However with an open cannon this cannot be done for new stuff may come out tomorrow and we would have to readjust to the new understanding and all things would be in a constant flux awaiting tomorrows to determine yesterdays...

So because I reason within a closed cannon I see things (all things) to be compared and reasoned out of Scripture and no other source- not my heart or mind or will, not this world, not others but only of Scripture under the tutelage of The Holy Spirit in combination of the renewed mind Christ has brought forth in me...

((Actually, imagine me looking at you like you have two heads)) I fail to see how this is a viable argument in you defense. To be spared sorrow? Frustration?

I am very literal in simplicity and this

1 Cor 2:9-10

9 But as it is written: "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him."

10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.

NKJV

and Heaven is where Jesus went to prepare for us a place

John 14:2-3

2 In My Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you,

I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

NKJV

Literally how can these be true if God is taking people there and sending them back here to tell of it?

I understand with an open cannon no problem but for me I have no longer a place to stand upon God's Word cause I do not have all of it yet... but God has also said this

Matt 5:18

18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

NKJV

We know that this time is the great white throne for they are judged according to the Law for they rejected Christ

Prov 22:28

28 Do not remove the ancient landmark

Which your fathers have set.

NKJV

all Scripture must agree to the beginnings as landmarks so the endings

Rev 1:17-19

17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, "Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last.

18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.

19 Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this.

NKJV

Where is there anything to be added to The New Heaven and the New Earth and the eternal state Rev 22? Love Steven

[Guest]

There are two things that still bother me and have not been answered.

1. Why does having a near death experience have to be about proof or faith?

If spiritual experiences are discounted because they negate faith, what do you make of Paul seeing Jesus on the Road to Damascus?

What of Paul seeing a man enter Heaven?

What of John seeing Heaven?

2. Jesus raised people from the dead. What do you suppose happened to them in between death and being brought back?

And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.

And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us. Luke 9:49-50

[Guest]

I would be a little careful concerning this kid's story, and all near death experiences (being near does not mean being dead).

My main objection is: wouldn't that imply a reduction of this kid's free will to reject God later in life? If God really shows Himself to some of us before we are (really) dead, that will put them at an advantage compared to others that do not have this opportunity.

Another thing which is not clear is that I thought that we ascend to Heaven (or descend to Hell) with our bodies at

judgement day, otherwise what kind of judgement day is it, if everybody is already where he should be? In other

words: Heaven should be currently empty of souls with recognizable bodies.

And does Heaven really possess physical properties? The need of wings is justified only if motion if possible

in air or some sort of gas that provides the necessary mechanical support. I cannot imagine purely spiritual

entities needing wings or any other sort of mechanical transportation mean.

It's Not Hidden Dear One

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. Revelation 21:1-3

It's No Secret

And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever. Revelation 22:3-5

Jesus Saves

And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Revelation 22:12-17

Believe

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Revelation 4:11

And Be Blessed Beloved

Love, Joe

[Guest man]

Wrong brother.

Joh 8:44

You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

satan does not give God the Glory nor Christ Jesus. he steals it for himself by marring the Truth.

No he doesn

[Matthitjah]

See that