About divorce...

[gdemoss]

Repentance covers a multitude of sins. Nevertheless, as with the case of David's adultery and unjust bloodshed, which God forgave (Nathan said to David, “The LORD also has put away your sin; you shall not die," 2 Sam. 12:13), sins result in real-world consequences:

2 Sam. 2:10 ‘Now therefore, the sword shall never depart from your house, because you have despised Me, and have taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your wife.’ ... 14 ...[and] the child also who is born to you shall surely die.”

The Law of Moses permitted divorce, but the eternal Law of God, which was reiterated by Jesus, is this: one man, one woman, one time. (Unless in the case of death of a spouse.)

There will be eternal consequences for those who violate this law; but God is merciful.

Have you not read where God himself gave David multiple wives?  If he gave David multiple wives then how is you say God limits men to one through eternal law that has consequences?  Nay, there is no such eternal law.  That is error and defies the very word of God.

God allowed David to have multiple wives, as he did other Israelites, because of the Law of Moses. What did Jesus say about some of the provisions of Mosaic Law?

Matt. 19:8 “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so."

Matt. 5:31 “Furthermore it has been said [under the Law of Moses], ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 “But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except fornication causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery."

Matt. 5:38 “You have heard that it was said [under the Law of Moses], ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 “But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.

People have a choice whether to live under the standards of Mosaic Law, or the Eternal Law of God and his Christ "from the beginning." They will receive their rewards accordingly, as will everyone who teaches that polygamy -- whether in act or in belief -- is acceptable in the Presence of Christ.

By your logic you must be vegan for from the beginning it was so.

[JohnD]

I believe God was saying what David did was worse than if he had numerous wives.

Like Tamar was saying to her rapist brother Amnon, "Do not do this wicked thing, ask for my hand from our father he will not deny you." Most believed she was trying to buy time to escape Amnon, but perhaps also she was saying what he was about to do was worse than if they had proposed this to David.

God was not blessing polygamy or incest.

And btw, David's fourfold curse on the sheep-stealer in Nathan's parable came to pass.

1. Amnon raped Tamar
2. Absalom avenged Tamar by killing Amnon
3. Absalom tried to overthrow David, ran him out of Jerusalem, and slept with his wives
4. Absalom was slain by David's General Joab

David was forgiven but there is consequences for sin. 

Edited October 22, 2015 by JohnD

[Ezra]

 

Have you not read where God himself gave David multiple wives?  If he gave David multiple wives then how is you say God limits men to one through eternal law that has consequences?  Nay, there is no such eternal law.  That is error and defies the very word of God.

It is one thing to say God ALLOWED David to have many wives, and it is quite another thing to say that God GAVE David many wives.  There is no Scripture that supports what you have stated.  God did ALLOW polygamy and divorce in Old Testament times, but He does not do so in the New Testament (with just one exception for divorce). 

And the "eternal law" which you claim does not exist is in fact established through the Marriage of the Lamb.  The Lamb of God has only one wife, and she is called the Lamb's Wife. That is the eternal law. Adam and Eve were a type of the Church and Christ, and Christian marriage is a type of the marriage of Christ to His eternal Wife (the Church). And as Paul says, "This is a GREAT MYSTERY".

[gdemoss]

 

Have you not read where God himself gave David multiple wives?  If he gave David multiple wives then how is you say God limits men to one through eternal law that has consequences?  Nay, there is no such eternal law.  That is error and defies the very word of God.

It is one thing to say God ALLOWED David to have many wives, and it is quite another thing to say that God GAVE David many wives.  There is no Scripture that supports what you have stated.  God did ALLOW polygamy and divorce in Old Testament times, but He does not do so in the New Testament (with just one exception for divorce). 

And the "eternal law" which you claim does not exist is in fact established through the Marriage of the Lamb.  The Lamb of God has only one wife, and she is called the Lamb's Wife. That is the eternal law. Adam and Eve were a type of the Church and Christ, and Christian marriage is a type of the marriage of Christ to His eternal Wife (the Church). And as Paul says, "This is a GREAT MYSTERY".

2 Sam 12:8

I understand this to mean God gave David these wives.  You may disagree but here we would need to agree to disagree.

As for the wife of Christ I reject that argument based on the very fact that the bride is made up of many not one.  Singular is OK when the many are one.  You may disagrèe but again let us agree to disagree. 

I have nothing further to offer in discussion tha these.  Accept or reject matters not to me.  I am convinced.  If you wish to convince me of error then by all means you may seek to do so.  I have stated myself plainly.

Thank you brother for your imput.  Iron sharpens iron.

[Ezra]

2 Sam 12:8

I understand this to mean God gave David these wives.  You may disagree but here we would need to agree to disagree.

Please note that David did not marry any of Saul's wives. As explained by Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown (1871):

 

8. I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives

--The phraseology means nothing more than that God in His providence had given David, as king of Israel, everything that was Saul's.

The history furnishes conclusive evidence that he never actually married any of the wives of Saul.

But the harem of the preceding king belongs, according to Oriental notions, as a part of the regalia to his successor. [/quote]

As for the wife of Christ I reject that argument based on the very fact that the bride is made up of many not one.  Singular is OK when the many are one.

And in fact the many are one. As you will note when you study the doctrine of the Body and Bride of Christ, all members are regarded as ONE BODY, therefore Christ has only one Wife, called the Lamb's Wife (Rev. 19:7;21:9).  So I am not making any "argument" but giving you exactly what Scripture reveals. One man, one woman in Christian marriage symbolizes this.

[gdemoss]

I cannot accept those things as true.

Within the context of that which I quoted is my argument made true.  God, thru Nathan was chastising David over Bathsheba and Uriah and the wives of Saul were given unto him as it was said if this were not enough he would have given him more.

The things you say are not valid to me nor do they convince me of your position being correct.

I will say this, if God wants every man to have one wife only then I suppose he won't give any Christian more than one but any Christian having more than one wife would be guilty of unlovingly multiplying wives unto himself and would then be in error gone against the law of love.  If anything is to be done it must be done out of love.

[JohnD]

I believe God was saying what David did was worse than if he had numerous wives.

Like Tamar was saying to her rapist brother Amnon, "Do not do this wicked thing, ask for my hand from our father he will not deny you." Most believed she was trying to buy time to escape Amnon, but perhaps also she was saying what he was about to do was worse than if they had proposed this to David.

God was not blessing polygamy or incest.

And btw, David's fourfold curse on the sheep-stealer in Nathan's parable came to pass.

1. Amnon raped Tamar
2. Absalom avenged Tamar by killing Amnon
3. Absalom tried to overthrow David, ran him out of Jerusalem, and slept with his wives
4. Absalom was slain by David's General Joab

David was forgiven but there is consequences for sin. 

Awakened by the Spirit and led to read...

Matthew 7:1–5 (AV)

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.

...reminded and pressed by the Spirit to include that given the opportunities and circumstances of King David, I myself would have done worse.

And that David was a man after God's own heart. And his very published shortcomings have served as examples to warn humanity not to do them. Yet how many do them anyway! 

And while I am not one who has gone through with actual physical adultery (thanks to the LORD who prevented it all these decades), I have committed emotional and visual adultery time without number and been forgiven; most often confessing using the very Psalm 51 David in keeping with 1 John 1:9.

So the smugness I appear to have in such matters I do not own nor do I deserve. I only point out the example of Sir King David as an example to help others as I also point out my shortcomings now for the same purpose of humility and being pricked to the heart for my foolish arrogance.

And I might add, God is far more gracious than we give him credit for being. I smugly said sin has consequences not mentioning or even bringing to mind the times without number God has let my repeated bout with lust and arrogance and self pity slide.

I am humbled, LORD. Blessed be your holy name! Thank you, LORD!

In Jesus' name.

Amen.

 

Edited October 23, 2015 by JohnD

[JohnD]

Forgotten / ignored texts by us all:

1 John 2:16–17 (AV)

16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Proverbs 27:20 (AV)

20 Hell and destruction are never full; so the eyes of man are never satisfied.

Matthew 5:27–28 (AV)

27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

More than likely the greatest contributor to divorce in modern times.

 

Edited October 23, 2015 by JohnD

[MorningGlory]

And if you think you have problems with one wife, just look at those who had two.  Leah and Rachel, Sarah and her handmaiden, for instance.  In fact, God told the kings not to accumulate for themselves wives.  It is when people reject God's perfect will that He gives them what they want.  

And how many wives do you have, Gary?

Ageed, God instructed kings not to multiply wives unto themselves yet he gave them multiple wives.  To assume he did this to "give them what they want because they have rejected him" is to go outside of scripture.  You have to say then because David rejected God, God have him multiple wives.  That is error.

Maybe there is a difference between God choosing to give a man multiple wives and a man multiplying wives unto himself?  This is more agreeable with scripture.

God has only given me one wife.  I did not even seek her out.

As for a man having multiple wives being more trouble, absolutely, for God has said that a man who is married at all will have trouble in the flesh!  The more wives, the more trouble.  Though Solomon proved that a man can have both peace and multiple wives at the same time though through his many wives he strayed and worshipped other gods.

Would I if God brought me another or two more?  Oh my!  Talk about becomming absolutely dependent upon God....I would consider it very carefully for it must be that doing so would be the highest act of sacrificial love where there were not a better way.  It can only be done right when done out of love.  I would never seek it out.  It would have to be brought to me.  There are so many variables and considerations that I cannot say for certain but I do not forsee it happening.  

Thank you for provoking me to thought.

 

Let me provoke you some more, Gary.  Having two or more women in the same house would be like ASKING for fire from Heaven to rain down upon you.  I AM a woman and I wil tell you first hand that women do not share and play well with others.  Any man who has more than one wife is out of his mind, even if God allows it.  And I think He does. 

[missmuffet]

And if you think you have problems with one wife, just look at those who had two.  Leah and Rachel, Sarah and her handmaiden, for instance.  In fact, God told the kings not to accumulate for themselves wives.  It is when people reject God's perfect will that He gives them what they want.  

And how many wives do you have, Gary?

Ageed, God instructed kings not to multiply wives unto themselves yet he gave them multiple wives.  To assume he did this to "give them what they want because they have rejected him" is to go outside of scripture.  You have to say then because David rejected God, God have him multiple wives.  That is error.

Maybe there is a difference between God choosing to give a man multiple wives and a man multiplying wives unto himself?  This is more agreeable with scripture.

God has only given me one wife.  I did not even seek her out.

As for a man having multiple wives being more trouble, absolutely, for God has said that a man who is married at all will have trouble in the flesh!  The more wives, the more trouble.  Though Solomon proved that a man can have both peace and multiple wives at the same time though through his many wives he strayed and worshipped other gods.

Would I if God brought me another or two more?  Oh my!  Talk about becomming absolutely dependent upon God....I would consider it very carefully for it must be that doing so would be the highest act of sacrificial love where there were not a better way.  It can only be done right when done out of love.  I would never seek it out.  It would have to be brought to me.  There are so many variables and considerations that I cannot say for certain but I do not forsee it happening.  

Thank you for provoking me to thought.

 

Let me provoke you some more, Gary.  Having two or more women in the same house would be like ASKING for fire from Heaven to rain down upon you.  I AM a woman and I wil tell you first hand that women do not share and play well with others.  Any man who has more than one wife is out of his mind, even if God allows it.  And I think He does. 

 Right Morning.Two women who are the wife of one husband would not play well together.