Neuroscience: Why free will may be an illusion

[childeye]

Why free will may be an illusion

17:44 18 April 2011

New Scientiest

MacGregor Campbell, consultant

Does free will actually exist? Or are we all just biological robots?

In this video, see why modern neuroscience claims free will is an illusion and why psychology experiments suggest we may be better off believing the lie. Controlling our own destiny is so ingrained in modern society that its non-existence is constantly being challenged.

http://www.newscient...ref=online-news

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This presentation was bizarre. It does not explain why "modern neuroscience claims free will is an illusion."

Then it just gets weird.

Reminds me of the "Free-will" debates we have here.

Knowledge is thus designed that it will never come to completion for it is sourced in God Who is without end and as we gain in its amounts we turn inward to admire what we have attained (we worked really hard to get where we are after all!) and thus pride is born and the yeast of sin is blinding to us and that blindness causes us to lose the fact that what we have attained is nothing compared to that which is attainable... that is why when we keep our eyes fixed on Him we maintain the broken and contrite spirit of truth that we are nothing and He is everything -thus- in us we are made something only by His presence within us which is only a continuance of that focus of truth upon Him in which we shall traverse the eternities with Him our centered focus... Love Steven

I agree with this assessment, of Truth. This does not endorse a freewill however, since a man's will is governed by his knowledge or ignorance of Truth, and revelation is by the grace of God according to His purpose. Yes, God is the source of knowledge both objectively and subjectively therefore. This knowledge however is called discovery, while faith is walking without the discovery. The knowledge of God I am refering to here, is the knowledge of His Person, trust in His integrity, trust in His Eternal Holiness, trust in His perfect Love. Thus the issue is not choice or options but trust or distrust. Trust or distrust in eternal Love. Therefore to the knowledgable it is clear that to distrust God is trusting death. If trusting death is an option to some, they are in ignorance not knowledge, for we who believe in the Christ, know death is already defeated. Therefore to trust Love will not endure is not trust but distrust. Let's not let semantics confuse us.

Now to address judgment and culpability. In Romans 1 and the beginning of chapter 2 is the answer. For there it is revealed that because mankind did not esteem God as God, or in other words, they did not trust Him, He gave men over to the lust of the flesh. Because we did not esteem Him as our light, but counted His attributes in us as our own, we became vain. So in as much as we did this, He gave us over to depravity and a reprobate mind. Where once was virtue in the soul, there now entered in what was vile. Hence all lust of the flesh is a consequence of this vanity and all men are guilty and culpable in this.

However, because of mans culpability in this, no man can hold another man culpable for his sins according to the fact that a man cannot help his sinful condition. To do so is a reasoning based on hypocrisy. Therefore God judges each man according to how he judges others. This is the Truth revealed in scripture that inspires mercy and understanding. So, the issue is, do you believe in eternal love, do you esteem God as God? To see a choice is ignorance therefore, for in pondering the Holiness of God, you abandon Knowledge. He who sees that all the cards are in God's hands must conclude that if a man denies God, that man was meant to do so by God's hardening. Those who are dualminded, lost and confused in semantics , will slander me and say I just said God makes a man sin. This is not what I said at all, I said God is Who makes a man righteous, vanity, the Spirit of Satan is what makes a man sin.

Edited April 24, 2011 by childeye

[enoob57]

Dear Steven, apart from two things you say I have no problem with what you are saying. They are "please don't blaspheme my Father" and "you struggle with". For the record, I do not blaspheme God nor do I struggle with this matter of "freewill".

I will speak openly what is in my heart... I let Scripture form in me truth! So does that mean I believe I am infallible by no means ->I keep a close check on me... For there are those around me that I love with all that I am and for them I desire only Christ-> a must be true For He Has taught me so! Motivation.... I believe it with all that I am so I examine all the time what I have written against His Most Perfect Word The Light for my heart His Spirit guides through Scripture so that faith and the substance for the hope is increased! The comment of the mouse and the box as God is blasphemous my friend for that came from you not me... I am fully aware of the Godhead and Each Member and no created thing, other than man, can be entertained as to compare with Their existent being! The comment was so off the wall that I was dumb founded to read it!

What I do struggle with is explaining this to you so as to remove your mis-perceptions of me.

sir I have only your written words as have been: God's law had origins in evil, satan worked with God in the OT, The spirit within you determines what the text means, new revelation in addition to God's Written Word is possible... this is what I understand about you and have warned you in love these are errors within you not taught in God's Word...

Of course there is judgment. You have already established in your reasoning that freewill is necessary for judgment to occur. This is not accurate.

My Lord has fully revealed that He Is without sin or responsible for any of its activities or dealings... sin operates on its own sources->satan the father of all lies! Therefore when God sets in judgment of such He does so as Righteous and all that are there are there completely apart from anything He has purposed but has allowed->herein is choice or freewill for they are separated from Him due to sin yet he has said

Ezek 33:11

11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

KJV

For God will render to each man according to his own works. This is a judgment based upon the actions of each man according to his treatment of others and is therefore a just and equitable judgment apart from the issue of whether a man's choices are made freely. For instance, the merciful shall receive mercy. So this begs the question what makes a man merciful? There exists a Truth that upon seeing, justifies in a man's mind the need for mercy and causes a man to will to be merciful. And there exists a lie that argues counter to that Truth promoting and justifying condemnation and causes a man in his reasoning, to will to be unmerciful. Which one you believe will bring about you're own judgment out of your own mouth according to your own faith.

Look friend your standing on a cliff and if you jump you will expire if you don't you will not expire that is freewill of choice... some do and some do not! I know you seem to think your reasoning is quite profound and hard to attain to but what you do not promote logic but distortions of reason I cannot follow... Sorry for even a child knows when he is told to do something He has choice involved! Love Steven

[childeye]

Dear Steven, apart from two things you say I have no problem with what you are saying. They are "please don't blaspheme my Father" and "you struggle with". For the record, I do not blaspheme God nor do I struggle with this matter of "freewill".

I will speak openly what is in my heart... I let Scripture form in me truth! So does that mean I believe I am infallible by no means ->I keep a close check on me... For there are those around me that I love with all that I am and for them I desire only Christ-> a must be true For He Has taught me so! Motivation.... I believe it with all that I am so I examine all the time what I have written against His Most Perfect Word The Light for my heart His Spirit guides through Scripture so that faith and the substance for the hope is increased! The comment of the mouse and the box as God is blasphemous my friend for that came from you not me... I am fully aware of the Godhead and Each Member and no created thing, other than man, can be entertained as to compare with Their existent being! The comment was so off the wall that I was dumb founded to read it!

What I do struggle with is explaining this to you so as to remove your mis-perceptions of me.

sir I have only your written words as have been: God's law had origins in evil, satan worked with God in the OT, The spirit within you determines what the text means, new revelation in addition to God's Written Word is possible... this is what I understand about you and have warned you in love these are errors within you not taught in God's Word...

Of course there is judgment. You have already established in your reasoning that freewill is necessary for judgment to occur. This is not accurate.

My Lord has fully revealed that He Is without sin or responsible for any of its activities or dealings... sin operates on its own sources->satan the father of all lies! Therefore when God sets in judgment of such He does so as Righteous and all that are there are there completely apart from anything He has purposed but has allowed->herein is choice or freewill for they are separated from Him due to sin yet he has said

Ezek 33:11

11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

KJV

For God will render to each man according to his own works. This is a judgment based upon the actions of each man according to his treatment of others and is therefore a just and equitable judgment apart from the issue of whether a man's choices are made freely. For instance, the merciful shall receive mercy. So this begs the question what makes a man merciful? There exists a Truth that upon seeing, justifies in a man's mind the need for mercy and causes a man to will to be merciful. And there exists a lie that argues counter to that Truth promoting and justifying condemnation and causes a man in his reasoning, to will to be unmerciful. Which one you believe will bring about you're own judgment out of your own mouth according to your own faith.

Look friend your standing on a cliff and if you jump you will expire if you don't you will not expire that is freewill of choice... some do and some do not! I know you seem to think your reasoning is quite profound and hard to attain to but what you do not promote logic but distortions of reason I cannot follow... Sorry for even a child knows when he is told to do something He has choice involved! Love Steven

Dear Steven, thank you for your caring advice. I do believe you are sincere in it. However as I have said all along you misunderstand what I say. This forces me to be very careful around you whereas around others I feel quite at ease. I can understand how you misunderstood what I said concerning The origins of sin being the reason for the Old Testament, it was not worded well. But only you can know how you could misunderstand that my example of a mouse in a box, was meant to show how the existence of choices does not give man a freewill. You equate sin with freedom, which of course the Lord calls slavery. One of you are mistaken. Yes Satan is responsible for sin as the Father of sin, and the Old Testament entered in for sins sake. Why you have aproblem with that, I cannot know.

Yes, I believe Satan was a covering cherub working under God in the Old Testament according to my take on scripture as addressed in Job, Ezekial, Isaiah, Matthew , Mark, Luke , John, and Revelations. Read Ezekials wheels within wheels to see the place under God which the covering cherub holds. Read how his place was lost after Christs death in Revelations. Read how Satan crucified the Christ in the Gospels. Read in Hebrews how heaven was cleansed and a New order established wherein all things have been placed under Christ. Read how the Old order was one of bondage in Galatians. All I meant was that the husbandsman of the vineyard of God is not doing God's will. You say I think my thoughts are too deep for others to understand, when I've said from the beginning a child could understand.

So for the sake of simplicity I will say it again. The seeing made blind are those who think they see but are lost. The blind made seeing are those who know they were once lost because now they see. The blind therefore are not free in their wills, simply because they make choices. For their blindness hinders them from making choices out of any reliable sight. So you see, The Truth which gives sight, does set one free in their choices. Therefore the ones who have received sight, i.e. The Holy Spirit, now know they were not free but lost. I have personally seen numerous people changed in their wills by the Holy Spirit. For this reason I preach the Gospel. I have read the testimonies of thousands who have all been changed on the inside. These people who have become new creations, indeed have freewills, but those who are yet blind and deceived do not have freewills. Now how hard is that to understand? But because you insist freewills exist because we all make choices, you therefore cannot see such reasoning concludes all men are free in their wills. You therefore do not see ensalved wills as I do. Therefore we simply end up arguing semantics.

Peace be unto you Steven, Blessed is God's great Love who overcomes all the pettiness of mankind.

Edited April 25, 2011 by childeye

[enoob57]

Yes, I believe Satan was a covering cherub working under God in the Old Testament according to my take on scripture as addressed in Job, Ezekial, Isaiah, Matthew , Mark, Luke , John, and Revelations. Read Ezekials wheels within wheels to see the place under God which the covering cherub holds. Read how his place was lost after Christs death in Revelations. Read how Satan crucified the Christ in the Gospels. Read in Hebrews how heaven was cleansed and a New order established wherein all things have been placed under Christ. Read how the Old order was one of bondage in Galatians. All I meant was that the husbandsman of the vineyard of God is not doing God's will. You say I think my thoughts are too deep for others to understand, when I've said from the beginning a child could understand.

This is heresy...

satan opposes God’s work. Zech 3:1; 1 Thess 2:18. AND has done so since the very beginning

John 8:44-45

44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

NKJV

Okay here-> Your teaching is God says choose over and over again in His Word between good and evil and according to you really there is no choice... so are you calling God deceiver because He is saying choose when there is no choice? Love Steven

[childeye]

Yes, I believe Satan was a covering cherub working under God in the Old Testament according to my take on scripture as addressed in Job, Ezekial, Isaiah, Matthew , Mark, Luke , John, and Revelations. Read Ezekials wheels within wheels to see the place under God which the covering cherub holds. Read how his place was lost after Christs death in Revelations. Read how Satan crucified the Christ in the Gospels. Read in Hebrews how heaven was cleansed and a New order established wherein all things have been placed under Christ. Read how the Old order was one of bondage in Galatians. All I meant was that the husbandsman of the vineyard of God is not doing God's will. You say I think my thoughts are too deep for others to understand, when I've said from the beginning a child could understand.

This is heresy...

satan opposes God’s work. Zech 3:1; 1 Thess 2:18. AND has done so since the very beginning

John 8:44-45

44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

NKJV

Okay here-> Your teaching is God says choose over and over again in His Word between good and evil and according to you really there is no choice... so are you calling God deceiver because He is saying choose when there is no choice? Love Steven

Yes Satan opposes God's work, where have I said differently? I pointed this out in the incidents recorded in scripture above, now how is this heresy? Regarding your question pertaining to choice. Yes, as I've said over and over and over and over, people choose between life and death. And as I said over and over and over and over, those who trust God do not ponder a choice seeing that they trust God and do not consider distrust of God as a viable choice. Let me put it this way, for those who want to live there is no choice but to trust God. This is why I've said over and over and over and over, the bible never states God gave man the choice to disobey God and live, Satan did. Why is this so hard for you to comprehend?

Edited April 26, 2011 by childeye

[enoob57]

Yes, I believe Satan was a covering cherub working under God in the Old Testament according to my take on scripture as addressed in Job, Ezekial, Isaiah, Matthew , Mark, Luke , John, and Revelations. Read Ezekials wheels within wheels to see the place under God which the covering cherub holds. Read how his place was lost after Christs death in Revelations. Read how Satan crucified the Christ in the Gospels. Read in Hebrews how heaven was cleansed and a New order established wherein all things have been placed under Christ. Read how the Old order was one of bondage in Galatians. All I meant was that the husbandsman of the vineyard of God is not doing God's will. You say I think my thoughts are too deep for others to understand, when I've said from the beginning a child could understand.

This is heresy...

satan opposes God's work. Zech 3:1; 1 Thess 2:18. AND has done so since the very beginning

John 8:44-45

44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

NKJV

Okay here-> Your teaching is God says choose over and over again in His Word between good and evil and according to you really there is no choice... so are you calling God deceiver because He is saying choose when there is no choice? Love Steven

Yes Satan opposes God's work, where have I said differently? I pointed this out in the incidents recorded in scripture above, now how is this heresy? Regarding your question pertaining to choice. Yes, as I've said over and over and over and over, people choose between life and death. And as I said over and over and over and over, those who trust God do not ponder a choice seeing that they trust God and do not consider distrust of God as a viable choice. Let me put it this way, for those who want to live there is no choice but to trust God. This is why I've said over and over and over and over, the bible never states God gave man the choice to disobey God and live, Satan did. Why is this so hard for you to comprehend?

Yes, I believe Satan was a covering cherub working under God in the Old Testament according to my take on scripture as addressed in Job, Ezekial, Isaiah, Matthew , Mark, Luke , John, and Revelations.

The covering cherub was his place before iniquitiy (sin) was found in him and that was before the lie in the Garden... for he fathered that one as well! So He was a covering cherub working under God in the OT is heretical lie and perversion of Scripture... That is why I said it-> you have him in his sinless state as covering cherub opposing God and warring against the angels and saints in Old and New Testamnets... Love Steven

[childeye]

Yes, I believe Satan was a covering cherub working under God in the Old Testament according to my take on scripture as addressed in Job, Ezekial, Isaiah, Matthew , Mark, Luke , John, and Revelations. Read Ezekials wheels within wheels to see the place under God which the covering cherub holds. Read how his place was lost after Christs death in Revelations. Read how Satan crucified the Christ in the Gospels. Read in Hebrews how heaven was cleansed and a New order established wherein all things have been placed under Christ. Read how the Old order was one of bondage in Galatians. All I meant was that the husbandsman of the vineyard of God is not doing God's will. You say I think my thoughts are too deep for others to understand, when I've said from the beginning a child could understand.

This is heresy...

satan opposes God's work. Zech 3:1; 1 Thess 2:18. AND has done so since the very beginning

John 8:44-45

44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

NKJV

Okay here-> Your teaching is God says choose over and over again in His Word between good and evil and according to you really there is no choice... so are you calling God deceiver because He is saying choose when there is no choice? Love Steven

Yes Satan opposes God's work, where have I said differently? I pointed this out in the incidents recorded in scripture above, now how is this heresy? Regarding your question pertaining to choice. Yes, as I've said over and over and over and over, people choose between life and death. And as I said over and over and over and over, those who trust God do not ponder a choice seeing that they trust God and do not consider distrust of God as a viable choice. Let me put it this way, for those who want to live there is no choice but to trust God. This is why I've said over and over and over and over, the bible never states God gave man the choice to disobey God and live, Satan did. Why is this so hard for you to comprehend?

Yes, I believe Satan was a covering cherub working under God in the Old Testament according to my take on scripture as addressed in Job, Ezekial, Isaiah, Matthew , Mark, Luke , John, and Revelations.

The covering cherub was his place before iniquitiy (sin) was found in him and that was before the lie in the Garden... for he fathered that one as well! So He was a covering cherub working under God in the OT is heretical lie and perversion of Scripture... That is why I said it-> you have him in his sinless state as covering cherub opposing God and warring against the angels and saints in Old and New Testamnets... Love Steven

I never said he was in a sinless state during the Old or New Testament. Your version of the fall is based on conjecture. Jesus alone is the only begotten Son of God. The failure of the Old order in heaven was therefore inevitable and God knew this. That is why Jesus was a hidden arrow. I doubt you know what this means for you are of a mind that Satan could have been without sin like Jesus if he chose to. Consequently, your view of the fall of Satan is conjecture, seperate and apart of his being cast out of heaven. Whereas I am not concerned with the exact moment of his fall since he was doomed to fall. My concern is when his place in heaven was removed so that his role as an accuser ended and there would be a New order in heaven under the Christ. My concern is what the spirit of Satan is in man and in heaven, and how Christ defeats him.

Apart from that, you neglected to answer whether you can understand my take on choice above which I've said over and over and over and over... Now why is that?

Edited April 26, 2011 by childeye

[enoob57]

Because I believe My Father of My Lord Jesus Christ is Sovereign yet there will be those in hell and He is not culpable in that Sovereignty for their being there... In fact What He Has Done In His Son So Proves That... so as sin was born in satan by his own means for God had created him perfectly ->so also for everyone who attach

[childeye]

Because I believe My Father of My Lord Jesus Christ is Sovereign yet there will be those in hell and He is not culpable in that Sovereignty for their being there... In fact What He Has Done In His Son So Proves That... so as sin was born in satan by his own means for God had created him perfectly ->so also for everyone who attachés themselves to satan the same... and I sense in your words you believe God culpable of everything in His Sovereignty (satan is in obedience to God as he is)-> I do not! For that which opposes a Holy Righteous Father, Son and Spirit is not a deceit but a truth They have said to me and I have set my whole being upon Christ the Living Truth and my foundation is sourced objectively on the written Word of God so taught me by His Holy Spirit within.... Love Steven

I appreciate you being forthright with me Steven. Finally we come to the heart of the matter. You see no alternative between God being culpable or man being culpable. One is culpable. I've already stated my views on culpability above. They are in line with Romans 1 and the beginning of chapter 2. So let me present you with a scenario for your consideration.

When Adam was made he was alone before Eve. As we know Eve was made from a piece of Adam. When Adam awoke and beheld Eve he valued her above all that God had created saying, this is bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh. But Eve, being that she was made after Adam and having never before been alone, could not reciprocate. She valued Adam no more than a rock or a tree or anything else she beheld. Now whose fault is it? Is it Adams fault that he is not esteemed as he should be, seeing that Eve was made from him, and she was made for Him? Is it Eves fault she cannot esteem Adam being that she was made afterward? This seems unfair all the way around. Not to worry however, for the woman when she conceives and a piece of her is brought forth from her womb, she will love that child more than any other creation. She will bear a child who likewise will take her for granted even because that child came after, and she will have come full circle. Then she will think of the man and understand.

Likewise we were made from a piece of God, and take Him for granted just as Eve did. Is it mans fault or God's fault? Now there is a chasm that exists between God and man because of these circumstances that exist upon man being an antecedent event. Wherein there is the oppertunity for trust and distrust of one another to occur. For God could not force this esteem from man without losing what he seeks. And man cannot give God what He seeks without patronizing Him and in the end despising God for desiring what man cannot give Him. This seperation from God when going farther away from one another in distrust is sin. When we view in scripture the spirit of Satan working, we see him fomenting distrust of God in man and distrust of man in God. This is on display particularly in the book of Job, but is seen throughout scripture in bits and pieces, such as the episode in the garden in the book of Genesis where he says God is lying to them, and in Revelations where he is seen accusing man day and night before the Lord. So that if Satan were successful, he would make it God's fault in a man's eyes and man's fault in God's. I must state here that I do not believe God is swayed by the devil, but angels and men are. Satan therefore is a spirit of doubt containing a false and corrupt image of God toward earth and a false image of man toward heaven, for he understands nor knows personally either one. In ignorance and through this doubt he plays both sides against one another. I believe he is the left hand Cherub therefore, since we all have a right and a left to give or take, to excuse or accuse. Therefore one would become complicit in Satan's deception by blaming either one.

Now the Christ is sent to destroy the works of Satan. He being God's actual Word, he knows God personally and cannot be deceived for their exists no Chasm between him and God wherein Satan can work. He is begotten not made. This Word being made flesh walked in perfect faith because of his having a perfect knowledge of God, and as the Christ he is the Holy Image of God presented to man. But also he is the son of man, showing what the man walks like who has the knowledge of God unpoisoned by Satan's image. In this he is the Holy Image of man unto God and heaven. He sacrifices himself becoming the lamb of God, through which we have a covenant between man and God that is perpetual, and thereby becoming the mediator between man and God, traversing the Chasm between us and reconciling us to one another through his blood. Faith in this Christ empowers the Holy Spirit in opposition to the spirit of Satan. This is the concept of the trinity. Christ therefore will never accuse but will only excuse, knowing that men with the false image of God, cannot help their deception, and he is living proof of that. Therefore upon his cross he intercedes between his assailants who are controlled by the spirit of Satan saying, forgive them they know not what they do. And likewise any man who sees and believes that this is the True Image of God cannot help but be moved by his tortured sacrifice on our behalf. The proof of this Love which is eternal, if revealed as God's Love, ends all plausible reason to distrust God. All denial of such a love is Satanic and will destroy itself in self condemnation.

Consequently I am not able to blame God or man according to this scenario. For the fault is that we find fault. The problem started when we first doubted God, trying to fix what was not broken and we broke it. We traded in what was Holy for what was corrupt, and became corrupt in doing so. The only repentance available according to this scenario is to carry my own cross, forgiving those who do wrong to me knowing it is not their fault they are corrupt. If I do not, I condemn myself. Returning good for evil so as not to be a servant of Satan is now my ambition, forgiving even as I seek forgiveness. This is the only way to come full circle and come out blameless and Holy on the other end. For to blame God who is Holy is not reasonable according to such Truth. To blame man, is to say that I meant to despise God who is Holy, and that is equally not reasonable. By what measure a man judges another so will he be judged. We decide how culpable we are, by how we count others culpable.

I am looking forward to your response to this, Steven. You are one of few who have pestered me this hard so as to get me to describe both sides of the cross, where hypocrisy ends. I believe these events were inevitable so that the created could come to esteem the Creator as He is worthy. Satan is therefore also a necessary component. He is like the quicksilver that draws out the dross in refining gold. I happen to believe God in His foreknowledge has brought about all of these events. You would call it blaming Him, I would call it giving him credit. You don't have to accept what I say. The fact that all of the events that happened in the Old Testament are types for what would come to pass in the New, reveal the unfathomable extent of God's ability to manipulate all manner of time and space, both spiritual and physical matter, to the point where we are likened to nothing more than the culmination of His whims. Therefore I find nothing wrong with saying God did it all for His Name's sake. Can you think of a better way to do it?

Regardless, we will one day find out. For now the only important thing is to know that the Christ is the True Image of God and believe. Everything else will take care of itself so long as we perservere in His Love by the power of the Holy Spirit in us.

Edited April 26, 2011 by childeye

[Isaiah 6:8]

Let's be honest, to deny what is God is not a freewill, it is dishonesty and pride.

Lets be Honest, you have twisted the Bible to make it say what you want, you have changed the word and mis-quoted what it said to prove your points. This is not truth, this is lies, so what is your game? Why do you come here, its not to hear but to teach, which is against the TOS.

BTW Adam and Eve were not hypnotized

Childeye

The mistake for Adam was not that he disobeyed God but that he did not trust his maker over Satan. This preceded his disobedience. Satan used post hypnotic suggestion by planting a corruptible image of God in the mind of the innocent, who knew nothing of guile.

So if you want honesty, please start by reading the Bible for what it says, not for what you assume it says, or want it to say but what it really says, and please do not try to lead others astray. Thank you.