Rapture Question

[nChrist]

1 Corinthians 13:8-13 (KJV) 8 Charity never faileth: but whether [there be] prophecies, they shall fail; whether [there be] tongues, they shall cease; whether [there be] knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these [is] charity.

One can FORTHTELL from God's Word if one is careful, diligent, and not add or subtract anything from God's Word. FORTHTELLING from God's Word can be verified by God's Word, so a Berean would determine truth or fiction directly from God's Word, NOT from what some man says. What does God's Word say about FORETELLING in the above passage of Scripture? What does God's Word say about those who claim to be prophets and DATE SET?

Matthew 24:36-37 KJV But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Those who claim to be a prophet or speaking for God can be authenticated or discredited by God's Word. Please note that there is a big difference between FORTHTELLING from God's Word and FORETELLING as a Prophet from God. False prophets deceive many, but those who search the Scriptures find them out and IGNORE them. The Holy Bible is the measurement of all truth and exposes the FALSE. We should warn the babes in Christ and our weaker Brothers and Sisters about false prophets. False prophets are crawling out of the woodwork like roaches, and they are deceiving many. A sound habit: prove or disprove from God's Word and:

2 Timothy 2:15 KJV Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

[JohnD]

What is flawed about the generation not passing is that it refers to a time when the Temple is standing so that the Levitical sacrifices are performed.

Matthew 24:29-34 (KJV)

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Yeshua / Jesus looked on the fig tree for the pre-seasonal fruit (which is particularly sweet) and there was only leaves. This was prophetic of Israel (the fig tree Hosea 9:10) to see if any understood about the Messiah (Daniel 9:26 / Isaiah 52:13 - 53:12 / Psalm 22 / Genesis 22) and the new covenant (Jeremiah 31:31-34) and there were none. Only leaves. Religious practice. Man trying to live up to God's standards or sacrifice for failing to do so. The first religious act of man:

Genesis 3:7 (KJV)

7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

The count down for a generation's length of time cannot begin until there is a rebuilt Temple and the Levitical sacrifices are performed.

Daniel 9:27 (KJV)

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Daniel 12:11-12 (KJV)

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

Stop falling for clueless wild eyed preachers and doomsday salemen and women who make fools out of themselves and sully the teaching and the name of the Almighty by using his Holy Name to peddle their failed prophecies. It is disgusting!!!

Edited June 2, 2011 by JohnDB

[i-jack747]

At the same time. You could be "Ruptured" lifted up not made into a diss-in-bodied spirit.

[Guest nita777]

First, PLEASE let's not turn this into a debate on whether there will be a Rapture or not. Thanks.

Okay, my question to those that do believe we will be raptured:

Do you think we will be raptured before the Antichrist appears on the scene, or after?

I'm hoping before

[Fez]

(please check over all my logic + calculations)

I SEEM TO BE ON MY OWN HERE

(I cannot understand why no one has seen this before)

1Sa 3:20 And all Israel from Dan to Beersheba knew that Samuel was established as a prophet of the LORD.

1Sa 3:21 And the LORD appeared again at Shiloh, for the LORD revealed himself to Samuel at Shiloh by the word of the LORD.

Tell me, do you hear the Word of the Lord through the word of the Lord? Or through your own understanding and interpretation?

The Lord reveals Himself through His word, so we need to know it intimately. If we don't read our bibles, and don't know scripture, we are not going to hear the Word of the Lord.

John Piper says "If you are looking for Jesus, best to do it through the pages of the bible, or you are going to end up someplace else" (or words to that effect).

[JohnD]

[Fez]

I think too many Christians look toward the rapture as an "exit strategy".

I would rather live in Jesus and run to Him now, than wait for Him to come and get me.

That's going to happen anyway....

[Nyoka]

I think too many Christians look toward the rapture as an "exit strategy".

I would rather live in Jesus and run to Him now, than wait for Him to come and get me.

That's going to happen anyway....

Well said Fez. We can debate the rapture all we like but it is no good if we debate it at the expense of doing the job of making disciples and preaching the gospel. It is no good debating it if we end up condemning our brethren over something no one can 100% prove from the bible. We all see through a glass darkly now and when we stand with Him we will be surprised to find out how much of what we believe didn't matter as much as what we thought. Yes we do need to stand against heretical beliefs but there is a big difference between a heretical belief and just disagreeing on what a particular scripture means. We should be out preaching the gospel and reaching people and doing it as if today is our last day on earth. Then we need to disciple so those reached learn and grow and can go make more disciples and so the family of God grows. We need to be looking for His coming and be ready to go right now but prepared to stay for as long as God wants us to.

[Bold Believer]

First, PLEASE let's not turn this into a debate on whether there will be a Rapture or not. Thanks.

Okay, my question to those that do believe we will be raptured:

Do you think we will be raptured before the Antichrist appears on the scene, or after?

According to Daniel, Christ and Paul, it will be after the abomination of desolation.

Most scholars disregard Daniel, because they insist that his message was only for Jews. That is a huge mistake that I prove in my book.

Then we have Jesus, and many also believe His message was for the Jews only as well, which I also prove wrong.

Then we have Paul, but they can no longer make the claim that the message is only for the Jews, because Paul was called to preach to the Gentiles. So all three are in agreement.

I don't have time to track down the Scripture right now, so I'll just leave you with my opinion, for now anyway.

Neither Daniel nor Jesus Himself say one thing about a rapture. When they speak of the abomination that makes desolate, they are referring to the armies which bring the judgment of God upon disobedient Jerusalem. (Daniel 9:26; Luke 21) This prophecy has been fulfilled. Don't confuse the end of the Age (the Jewish Age) with the Last Day. This is where the vast majority of eschatologists make their greatest error. The rapture occurs on the Last Day, because it is the metamorphosis of the bodies of the remaining Believers on Earth, just before fire falls from heaven and destroys Gog and Magog. This is what Paul describes in I Cor 15, not some secret rapture.

Jesus said that the generation which was then living would see the abomination of desolation and all of the bad things happen to and in Jerusalem. Again, trying to project this conversation between Jesus and four of His closest associates from its proper place in time to our time will result in nothing but confusion. But that never seems to stop anyone.

FYI: Jesus never once mentions 'Antichrist" either, nor does Daniel or Paul.

In correct answer to the original question: After. Thousands of years after.

[joi]

Thousands of years after?

Shortly after registering here I read a post in which someone made a reference to a book and I clicked onto that site, ultimately

losing the op here in Worthy. To date I have been unable to find that post again. The book is entitled "The Finished Mystery", in which the rapture is discussed on pgs. 128 - 131. This is a pdf file and is quiet long, 230 odd pages. If you want the site addy let me know.

I have mostly believed that the exit resurrection will be a pre-trib happenstance. However throughout history Christians have suffered and died for their

belief in Christ. We are told;

Hebrews 12:6

For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

Because of our sin and turning away from Him, we should expect to get off scott free in the exit resurrection? I think the US is in for some severe punishment in the days to come.

Some questions I have:

If He would allow the US to be in the sorry state in which we now exist, (because we are in a Laodicean mindset) do we deserve to be raptured?

If so then what happens to His chastisment of us? Could going through a part of the tribulation be considered our scourging, or are these two events mutually exclusive of one another?