Can you loose your salvation once you are given it? Can you surrender

[oak]

I

[luke22ministries]

Thank you for your post Oak. I think there may be misunderstanding here. In no way do I ever advocate that when you accept Christ in your life, everything becomes Rosey and you can do whatever you wish with the rest of your life. Sin has consequences. However, I believe the question is: Is salvation tied to your works, Good or Bad or Is salvation grace given to you by God. If you could either earn salvation or keep salvation based on your works, then where is the line? What do you have to do to lose your salvation? If you cheat on your wife? If you fail to help an old lady across the street? If are mislead or decieved once, twice, three times by your own flesh? At what point does God draw the line and say "Thats enough, salvation is now off the table"?. While I do not believe that you can live a full life in Christ by giving in to your own flesh, I dont believe salvation is something you can either A) earn by doing a series of good things or B) unearn by making a series of boneheaded mistakes.

Thats my take based on what I read.

I

[OneLight]

Once again I will make a comment that if it is your desire to remain in the Lord, even though you sin, your salvation cannot be taken away. Yet, if you, in your heart, decide to not follow the Lord, then you have given His gift back to Him and rejected His salvation. There is no OSAS.

[Guest shiloh357]

Hello, Oak

Im amazed at some of the thoughts expressed here. If I were to believe what is said here, then all I have to do is accept Christ as my personal Savior and its a rose colored world for me or at the least I dont have to put any effort in making faith stronger or worrying about salvation.

Hi oak, I have read through this entire thread and I don't find that anyone here is saying any of that. I think you misreading what has been posted. For my part, I have said that we are to view grace as Paul taught it in Titus 2: 11-14. Grace is the expectation of a holy life and not a free pass to live as we please. And given what I have read on thsi board, no one is under the illusion that the Christian life is not a tough row to hoe. We have people in this thread who have been through some really tough times and know first hand how hard it can be to serve the Lord, so I think your summary judgment of the people in this thread is unwarranted and uncalled for.

For those who love to quote Paul stand back for second and see the trials he had to go through. The point is admitting Christ into your life is not a coupon ticket. Maybe Im in the company of people whose faith is never challenged and can move mountains.

Or maybe you are being a bit presumptuous about people whom you don't know, and maybe you need to stop presuming things about their faith and the degree they have been challenged.

A bit of reality check here, lets look at Christ as a Judge, speaking to the seven Churches (Rev:1-3) Does He say anything like, you dont need to endure, repent, conquer, work, because you believe that I died for your sins.

Has anyone on this thread claimed that we don't need to repent, work, endure, etc.?

Read the opening of Revelations and then come back to me about faith saving you without any effort on your part.

We are not saved by faith. We are saved by grace through the agency of faith. Faith is the conduit through which receive the grace that saves us. If we are saved through any of our own effort, then salvation is a reward for service and not a free gift. We are justfied on account of our faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross. All of the work that was necessary for salvation was done by Christ on the cross. When we receive Jesus, we enter into His rest. We do not work for salvation at any point or to any degree.

Finally about work, they are not our works to begin with, for Christ gave them to you before time. The worst thing you can do is not do them when the opportunity arises yes, help the old lady across the street - but give praise to Christ and not yourself. The mistake the foolish virgins made. I understand the Bible is paradoxical for the reason that we have to go out there and take action. And, Ruck1b, fight the good fight, all of your life

[Guest shiloh357]

Once again I will make a comment that if it is your desire to remain in the Lord, even though you sin, your salvation cannot be taken away. Yet, if you, in your heart, decide to not follow the Lord, then you have given His gift back to Him and rejected His salvation. There is no OSAS.

Well it is true there is no OSAS but that is because it is a made up doctrinal/label misapplied to the doctrine of Eternal Security.

There is not ONE example in the NT of a authentic Christian rejecting Christ and deciding to walk away from salvation. Not ONE example. There are passages about apostasy, but apostates are not genuine Christians who decided to reject Christ. That is a self-contradicting concept. Apostates are people who assent to and acknowledge the truth, and even live within the framework of the truth, but returnn to their old way of life and end up rejecting the truth altogether. Most of the time, apostates are people who live within the framework of the external Christian communnity. They go to church, and even participate as "Christians" in the rituals and perhaps even sing in the choir, and teach a class, but end up, as Jesus would say, having no root in themselves" fall back into a sinful life.

[Guest man]

So what do you guys think? With all of these posts, do you believe, from scripture that salvation is once given always had or can be lost or surrendered?

James 5

19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,

20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

Then if we can "lose" our salvation then salvation is not fully God's work. If that is the case we can then we can stand before Him on our own accord because we made sure we stayed saved. How does something that doesn't start with us, and was something we could never do, somehow now make eligible to work for.

What is your interpretation of that passage from James?

Define "sinner" in terms of the passage in vs 20....

Someone who "wanders from the truth".

[Guest SDGS]

I want to say thank you to everyone for answering my questions and being so patient. I know that I often need to be hit in the head before I grasp something.

I don't know why I keep fighting so hard, because it is not going to stop. You guys have helped me tons! I feel now more safe, that this really is God, and not satan messing with me.

The pastor said he is going to try to set up a time for me with the man who prayed for me, sometime maybe next week, and already my mind is looking for excuses. When I get too close, I run. Okay there, I said it. I have to stop fighting this.

Edited June 4, 2011 by SDGS

[~candice~]

I want to say thank you to everyone for answering my questions and being so patient. I know that I often need to be hit in the head before I grasp something.

I don't know why I keep fighting so hard, because it is not going to stop. You guys have helped me tons! I feel now more safe, that this really is God, and not satan messing with me.

The pastor said he is going to try to set up a time for me with the man who prayed for me, sometime maybe next week, and already my mind is looking for excuses. When I get too close, I run. Okay there, I said it. I have to stop fighting this.

ummm, off topic, but I can only find this thread by clicking on my name/content, and it says "Inner Court". I don't think I am supposed to be in that. I can keep a secret though.

Wow I kinda remember this, only I had a very good reason for "coming and going"... I was scared of how much sanctification was going to hurt. It hurt LOTS but He get me through it. Hang in there, and I agree, stop fighting! It hurts less if you just commit and go through the pain properly once, rather than half going through it many many times.

[oak]

Thank you for your post Oak. I think there may be misunderstanding here. In no way do I ever advocate that when you accept Christ in your life, everything becomes Rosey and you can do whatever you wish with the rest of your life. Sin has consequences. However, I believe the question is: Is salvation tied to your works, Good or Bad or Is salvation grace given to you by God. If you could either earn salvation or keep salvation based on your works, then where is the line? What do you have to do to lose your salvation? If you cheat on your wife? If you fail to help an old lady across the street? If are mislead or decieved once, twice, three times by your own flesh? At what point does God draw the line and say "Thats enough, salvation is now off the table"?. While I do not believe that you can live a full life in Christ by giving in to your own flesh, I dont believe salvation is something you can either A) earn by doing a series of good things or B) unearn by making a series of boneheaded mistakes.

Thats my take based on what I read.

I

[Guest]

What?

Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 1 Pete 1:21-23

Can

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Philippians 2:13

God

As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Revelation 3:19

Fail....

Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. Romans 14:4