Can you loose your salvation once you are given it? Can you surrender

[oak]

IN OUR UNDERSTANDING OF SALVATION WE YEARN TO BE CONFIRMED IN BODY AND MIND THAT WE ARE SAVED

Shiloh, Shiloh, my jabs as you call them, was a mirror held up to your writing. But take it as you see it. Let me be very clear on this point for my

[Guest shiloh357]

When you say 'Pity is useless' this concerns me greatly. If you believe that, read 2 Corinthians 3:6. You may be confusing the Lord with the law.

No I am not. Read everything I said. I not only said that pity is useless, I said that I pray for them and reach out to them. What good does pity do for a man who is starving or naked or homeless? It is when we love and care and present the truth that people are brought into the Kingdom. I can pity them all day, and it will do them no good.

[~candice~]

PS I regret that i haven't read the new comments (like Candices) and any thing that I might of added by reading them I apologize. Also. I lean more heavily towards One Light than Shiloh. But Shiloh maybe one day we will love one an other for that's due to you as a Christian. I have to prepare dinner.

You are going to learn more from Shiloh than me anyway, so no biggie .

[~candice~]

I understand this is a favourite debate of many, and a worthy topic of bible study. Years ago I studied it and concluded there were far too many warnings to continue on in the faith for me to ignore, and I don't think the Lord makes idle threats. But in practice, I am not sure the OSAS debate (or ES, as Shiloh is debating) has made that much difference to my walk, because regardlless of whether you can lose salvation or not, the instruction is always to, from whatever condition you are in, right here and now, continue on in the Lord. Just keep going in Him, continue in repetence, belief, strong trust. Even in those times where I have drifted from Him, I've always felt Him pull me back, I have faith He will continue to do so. My two cents .

[OneLight]

One Light,

I think there may be confusion between 'those who do not obey' and 'those who do not know him'. If sin was the cause of being removed from the book of life, by his own admission, Paul would have been removed from the book of life because he was the 'greatest sinner of them them all' (according to him). Again, if you measure by works, what is the measurement? Cheating on a spouse? Murder? Swearing? What is a sin so greivous that you surrender your salvation?

I hope that you guys will have the chance to check out the article on which this thread was written. In it, I argue this point regarding salvation, sin and I do give some personal examples in my own life. If you get the chance to read it (if you dont wish to do that, please feel free to continue with the threaded conversations here) please let me know if you agree with the points made or not.

http://www.examiner.com/christianity-in-west-palm-beach/dear-fearful-is-it-possible-to-loose-your-salvation-read-on

Since you offer answers, do you think Jesus was only bluffing or does He really mean that those who do not obey, by their own choice, will have their name removed?

Revelation 3

The Dead Church

And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,

These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars:

[OneLight]

Hello Onelight,

OneLight, on 05 June 2011 - 02:20 AM, said:

luke22ministries, on 05 June 2011 - 01:27 AM, said:

I hope that you guys will have the chance to check out the article on which this thread was written. In it, I argue this point regarding salvation, sin and I do give some personal examples in my own life. If you get the chance to read it (if you dont wish to do that, please feel free to continue with the threaded conversations here) please let me know if you agree with the points made or not.

http://www.examiner....lvation-read-on

Since you offer answers, do you think Jesus was only bluffing or does He really mean that those who do not obey, by their own choice, will have their name removed?

Revelation 3

The Dead Church

And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,

These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."

I believe those who He spoke with are all saved, giving proof by the words "Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent". I also believe that Jesus would not say something that he is not willing to fulfill. If anyone of them refused to repent, that one will loose their salvation.

Reference to another time the LORD spoke like this was when He spoke to Moses about the sins of those who made the golden calf.

Exodus 32:33 And the LORD said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book."

It does appear that we are given a choice to follow or be in danger of loosing salvation by our decision not to obey.

You are using two Scriptures as proof texts for an issue that neither were designed to address.

First of all, neither passage has anything to do with turning away from or rejecting Christ. the letters in Revelation 2-3 are written to churches not individuals and do not address individual salvatoin. At no point is Jesus claiming that the entire congregation is about lose their salvation.

The passage in Exodus is not referencing "The Lamb's Book of Life." If it were, if this were addressing salvation, then one would have to coclude that salvation is based upon performance/works. If one has to behave a certain way for salvation, it becomes a reward for service or personal merit.

Also the issue of being blotted out of the, "Book of Life," is important to address. "The Book of Life," is not the same as, "The Lamb's Book of Life." "The Book of Life," is found in both Old and New Testments, whereas, "The Lamb's Book of Life," is only found in the New Testament.

"The Book of Life," is a registry of everyone ever born on the earth. When God blots someone out of that book, it refers to phyisical death, premature or otherwise. "The Lamb's Book of Life" is a registry of everyone who belongs to Jesus Christ. There is NO reference to being blotted out of "The Lamb's Book of Life." When you examine Scripture, you will find that those who reject Christ never had their names written in "The Lamb's Book of Life," and are blotted out of, "The Book of Life" as well when they die. However, Christians not only have their names written in, "The Lamb's Book of Life," but their names are also retained in, "The Book of Life."

So those who are unsaved who appear before Christ in the Book of Revelation appear before Him without their names written in either book. They face the second death, the lake of fire (Rev. 20:12-15).

I will, once again, look into the differences. My memory seems to be fading, where I remember discussing this with you before.

A quick search revealed this: Revelation 17:8

The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

It appears to me that they are the same ... Maybe you can point where I can find the difference in scripture to me again.

[Guest shiloh357]

Shiloh, Shiloh, my jabs as you call them, was a mirror held up to your writing.

Not hardly. I have made no jabs at you. My comments were aimed at your behavior and your judgmental attitude. You simply can't find it in yourself to be honest about that. Nothing you said is a mirror of anything I said. I am not trading insults with you. I am pointing to a fatal flaw in how you are approaching this issue.

Let me be very clear on this point for my

[Smalcald]

For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:

37

[oak]

Quote

Shiloh, Shiloh, my jabs as you call them, was a mirror held up to your writing.

Not hardly. I have made no jabs at you. My comments were aimed at your behavior and your judgmental attitude. You simply can't find it in yourself to be honest about that. Nothing you said is a mirror of anything I said. I am not trading insults with you. I am pointing to a fatal flaw in how you are approaching this issue.

I didn

[luke22ministries]

I am sorry. I misunderstood the context. In that regard, you are 100% right. "Whatever you did for the least of these, you did for me". Our job, according to Romans 2:1 is not to judge but to stand ready to provide love and example.

When you say 'Pity is useless' this concerns me greatly. If you believe that, read 2 Corinthians 3:6. You may be confusing the Lord with the law.

No I am not. Read everything I said. I not only said that pity is useless, I said that I pray for them and reach out to them. What good does pity do for a man who is starving or naked or homeless? It is when we love and care and present the truth that people are brought into the Kingdom. I can pity them all day, and it will do them no good.