This is the importance Christ put on Mary

[seraph]

Biblically what we can't establish is:

* That she was perfect

But we can.

Just look at how God declares He'll create Mary sinless in Gen 3, 15.

If that doesn't do the trick, I dunno what will.

Genesis 3:15

And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel."

How is Genesis 3:15 declaring God will create Mary sinless?

Luke 1:46-47

"I will put enmity between you and the woman"

God happens to mention that because with original sin there's really no more enmity between Satan and humans, He has to artificially put it there (the enmity) for Mary, that is to create Her immaculate like Adam and Eve were.

Protestants tend to ignore the special intervention God talks about in Gen 3, 15 and for them, in reality that intervention equals to nothing at all (something that is absurd obviously, because you just cannot disregard God's Word).

Isn't the "woman" Eve and the

[apothanein kerdos]

If Jesus had other brothers, why did He comit the care of His mother to the disciple John when his other brothers would have had the duty to do so?

Why didn't He let Joseph, His earthly "father", take care of it? The thing is, we don't know why. The reason for this could be that His brothers were already dead, off in a foreign land, or had disowned Him (which wouldn't be suprising). The possibilities are literally endless as to why He didn't have them do it.

What does the term 'full of Grace' mean to you?

Maybe you could refresh my memory, but I don't see that used to describe mary in the New Testament.

what does the 'ark of the covenant' in the old covenant forshadow in the new?

The Ark of the Coevenant was a sign for the Jews and used in the first temple for worship. Today the "new ark" is symbolic of the Holy Spirit's work within us.

and who else does scripture name as a son (or daughter) of Mary?

James and this is found in Mark 15:40, 47; 16:1; Luke 24:10. John 20:11-17 shows that this woman "Mary" was most likely Jesus' mother because of the way she reacts and wants to take care of the body.

[stevehut]

I do not believe in Mary having other children because the Scripture only mentions one "Son of Mary" and that's Jesus.

Um, there's a very good reason for that.

The Bible does not account for family lines through the mothers. Men are called "son of (the father's name)", not "son of (the mother's name)".

In any event, if you're applying the test of "it must say 'son of Mary'", then I think you've created an artificial test there.

[stevehut]

If Jesus had other brothers, why did He comit the care of His mother to the disciple John when his other brothers would have had the duty to do so?

Maybe because they weren't there?

[seraph]

If Jesus had other brothers, why did He comit the care of His mother to the disciple John when his other brothers would have had the duty to do so?

Maybe because they weren't there?

John 7:3-5

Therefore His brothers said to Him, "Leave here and go into Judea, so that Your disciples also may see Your works which You are doing.

"For no one does anything in secret when he himself seeks to be known publicly. If You do these things, show Yourself to the world."

For not even His brothers were believing in Him.

I just read these verses again and it got me thinking

[apothanein kerdos]

If Jesus had other brothers, why did He comit the care of His mother to the disciple John when his other brothers would have had the duty to do so?

Maybe because they weren't there?

John 7:3-5

Therefore His brothers said to Him, "Leave here and go into Judea, so that Your disciples also may see Your works which You are doing.

"For no one does anything in secret when he himself seeks to be known publicly. If You do these things, show Yourself to the world."

For not even His brothers were believing in Him.

I just read these verses again and it got me thinking

[stevehut]

If in John 7:5 the word

[Guest Philip James]

If Jesus had other brothers, why did He comit the care of His mother to the disciple John when his other brothers would have had the duty to do so?

Why didn't He let Joseph, His earthly "father", take care of it? The thing is, we don't know why. The reason for this could be that His brothers were already dead, off in a foreign land, or had disowned Him (which wouldn't be suprising). The possibilities are literally endless as to why He didn't have them do it.

Hi SJ,

You raise the point that his brothers may have been dead, disowned him etc... yet you propose James as one of his brothers. Now James certainly was one of the faithful and thus would have been the proper choice to care for Mary (the mother of Jesus) , had he been her son. So then if James is not her son, who's son is he? I could suggest that he is James the son of Alpheus (Math 10:3) and that Mary is the name of Alpheus' wife. There is just as much evidence to conclude this as there is to conlude that Mary 'the mother of James' is also Mary 'the mother of Jesus' .

What does the term 'full of Grace' mean to you?

Maybe you could refresh my memory, but I don't see that used to describe mary in the New Testament.

Luke 1:28

The Ark of the Coevenant was a sign for the Jews and used in the first temple for worship. Today the "new ark" is symbolic of the Holy Spirit's work within us.

Intersting opinion. I would be interested to explore a study of this with you on another thread.

John 20:11-17 shows that this woman "Mary" was most likely Jesus' mother because of the way she reacts and wants to take care of the body.

I must disagree with you here. The woman 'Mary' spoken of in John 20: 11-18 is clearly Mary Magdalene (vs 18), to say otherwise does violence to the text.

I am sorry you have yet to show any conclusive evidence that Mary had other sons and daughters. You have only the 'brothers and sisters' that may or may not have referred to near kinsmen.

Peace and Love!

PJ

[larryt]

Hi PJ

If Jesus had other brothers, why did He comit the care of His mother to the disciple John when his other brothers would have had the duty to do so?

Quite simply, that His brothers didn't believe until after the resurection. John was the "disciple whom Jesus loved."

What does the term 'full of Grace' mean to you?

The means/ability God gives us to live here in this world once we are born again in spite of the old nature. Paul was given grace even though there was a messanger of satan in his flesh. "My grace is sufficient for you."

Grace - That which we don't deserve because we have sinned.

what does the 'ark of the covenant' in the old covenant forshadow in the new?

The heart of man, the residence of the Holy Spirit in man.

and who else does scripture name as a son (or daughter) of Mary?

Mt 13:55  Is not this the carpenter

[apothanein kerdos]

Hi SJ,

You raise the point that his brothers may have been dead, disowned him etc... yet you propose James as one of his brothers. Now James certainly was one of the faithful and thus would have been the proper choice to care for Mary (the mother of Jesus) , had he been her son. So then if James is not her son, who's son is he? I could suggest that he is James the son of Alpheus (Math 10:3) and that Mary is the name of Alpheus' wife. There is just as much evidence to conclude this as there is to conlude that Mary 'the mother of James' is also Mary 'the mother of Jesus' .

That's an excellent point. However I'm not saying that the apostle James is one of Jesus' brothers, after all, this would contradict scripture. I'm asserting that He had a brother named James.

Luke 1:28

All this means is that she is favored above all other women. She is favored more than other women by God. This does not teach that she is perfect, merely that God favored her. We know that God favored the Jews for centuries, yet they too were far from perfect.

I must disagree with you here. The woman 'Mary' spoken of in John 20: 11-18 is clearly Mary Magdalene (vs 18), to say otherwise does violence to the text.

The problem with this is that when we turn to Matthew, or Mark, or Luke we find that there was "another Mary" there. Why is Mary Magdeline, who is always refered to as such, not refered to in this one portion of scripture? It doesn't make logical sense. We must stick with what we know and assume that while Jesus spoke to Mary, Mary Magdeline reported it to the disciples (that or she is the one that John talked to).

I am sorry you have yet to show any conclusive evidence that Mary had other sons and daughters. You have only the 'brothers and sisters' that may or may not have referred to near kinsmen.

Oh this completely ignored the Greek evidence I gave and even misquotes it. Just in case you forgot:

First, appealing to the confusion of "brothers" and "cousins". The context of these verses doesn't allow it to mean "cousins". This is simply a myth that Catholic Apologist throw around and people eat up without realizing that context makes the word what it is. Take for instance Mark 6:2-3. When "brothers" is mentioned here, it uses the form of adelphai which is taken from adelphos. This is significant in that adelphos cannot and never does mean "cousin". It literally means brother by blood. The only exception is if it's refering to a fellow believer, of course this is easily dismissed when we see that no one could have been a fellow Believer at that time seeing as how Christ had not died yet. Likewise, if the writer's intent was to show that these were Jesus' cousins the writer would have used the Greek word suggenes. This comes from genos which is where we get our English word "genes" from. It refers to a kindred by blood or an offspring, easily translatable into cousin or brother or offspring, just something relating to relation. Thus, adelphai will always mean brother, whereas suggenes gives us the chance to loosely interpret it as brother or cousin. Unfortunately for many Catholic Apologist, suggenes is only used a relatively few times and none in refrence to Christ.