Faith

[mizzdy]

Can someone help me out here, where does it say in scripture there are two kinds of faith, a saving faith and another kind of faith? When I tried just googling 'two kinds of faith' I get mostly Calvin and 'Heidelberg Catechism' sites and that kind of stuff. And according to Calvin or the person writing about him says that saving faith is only for the sinner.

To me faith is well faith, we first know our need for a Savior, we come to Him in budding faith, and as we grow and mature that faith or trust grows stronger and stronger. I am coming up blank for scriptures that show two kinds of faith for the believer.

shalom,

Mizz

No need to "Google", it is right there in scripture.

The first faith is the faith required for salvation: Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, ". Everyone has this type, or amount of faith, if they are saved.

The second faith is the gift of faith given by the Holy Spirit, as found in 1 Corinthians 12:9a:

"4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:

8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,

9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,

10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills."

If everyone has faith that saves and the gift of faith is given only by the Holy Spirit as He wills, they have to be two different faiths. I see the gift He gives as much supernatural as the working of miracles.

I'm going to have to give that some thought, I still do not see two kinds of faith. I see that one person can be given a stronger faith to move that mountain so to speak, or have his faith increased to do a specific work, where another is given strength in another area, thats how I take the verses above.

shalom,

Mizz

I used the term for a lack of a better way to explain it. Faith is faith, and I should of stated the explanation by the amount of faith one has. That may be better. Yet, there is a difference no matter how it is worded.

A friend said this to me,

"the one who hears from God that God wishes to move a mountain, then moves out of the way, he is exercising faith. Only the one who hears from God first, can exercise faith. Others exercise presumption. The difference can be told by the observer. If the mountain moves, the speaker was acting in faith, if it doesn't presumption. This makes saving faith and the faith of miracles one and the same. If a person believes God and accepts His gift of eternal life, has heard God first. Hence, his faith is a faith bringing about salvation. However, faith can bring about more than that."

Faith is all about our trust in Him, how we react to Him, how we react to others because of what He has done for us, living out that trust/faith as we grow in listening and doing His word. I hope that makes sense, I am writing with a wonderful migraine throbbing in my head so it may not!

shalom,

Mizz

[OneLight]

Can someone help me out here, where does it say in scripture there are two kinds of faith, a saving faith and another kind of faith? When I tried just googling 'two kinds of faith' I get mostly Calvin and 'Heidelberg Catechism' sites and that kind of stuff. And according to Calvin or the person writing about him says that saving faith is only for the sinner.

To me faith is well faith, we first know our need for a Savior, we come to Him in budding faith, and as we grow and mature that faith or trust grows stronger and stronger. I am coming up blank for scriptures that show two kinds of faith for the believer.

shalom,

Mizz

No need to "Google", it is right there in scripture.

The first faith is the faith required for salvation: Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, ". Everyone has this type, or amount of faith, if they are saved.

The second faith is the gift of faith given by the Holy Spirit, as found in 1 Corinthians 12:9a:

"4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:

8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,

9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,

10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills."

If everyone has faith that saves and the gift of faith is given only by the Holy Spirit as He wills, they have to be two different faiths. I see the gift He gives as much supernatural as the working of miracles.

I'm going to have to give that some thought, I still do not see two kinds of faith. I see that one person can be given a stronger faith to move that mountain so to speak, or have his faith increased to do a specific work, where another is given strength in another area, thats how I take the verses above.

shalom,

Mizz

I used the term for a lack of a better way to explain it. Faith is faith, and I should of stated the explanation by the amount of faith one has. That may be better. Yet, there is a difference no matter how it is worded.

A friend said this to me,

"the one who hears from God that God wishes to move a mountain, then moves out of the way, he is exercising faith. Only the one who hears from God first, can exercise faith. Others exercise presumption. The difference can be told by the observer. If the mountain moves, the speaker was acting in faith, if it doesn't presumption. This makes saving faith and the faith of miracles one and the same. If a person believes God and accepts His gift of eternal life, has heard God first. Hence, his faith is a faith bringing about salvation. However, faith can bring about more than that."

Faith is all about our trust in Him, how we react to Him, how we react to others because of what He has done for us, living out that trust/faith as we grow in listening and doing His word. I hope that makes sense, I am writing with a wonderful migraine throbbing in my head so it may not!

shalom,

Mizz

How your friend worded what they said does not make sense to me, but yes, faith is faith, but if it was the same, then why would it be considered a gift?

[mizzdy]

Can someone help me out here, where does it say in scripture there are two kinds of faith, a saving faith and another kind of faith? When I tried just googling 'two kinds of faith' I get mostly Calvin and 'Heidelberg Catechism' sites and that kind of stuff. And according to Calvin or the person writing about him says that saving faith is only for the sinner.

To me faith is well faith, we first know our need for a Savior, we come to Him in budding faith, and as we grow and mature that faith or trust grows stronger and stronger. I am coming up blank for scriptures that show two kinds of faith for the believer.

shalom,

Mizz

No need to "Google", it is right there in scripture.

The first faith is the faith required for salvation: Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, ". Everyone has this type, or amount of faith, if they are saved.

The second faith is the gift of faith given by the Holy Spirit, as found in 1 Corinthians 12:9a:

"4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:

8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,

9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,

10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills."

If everyone has faith that saves and the gift of faith is given only by the Holy Spirit as He wills, they have to be two different faiths. I see the gift He gives as much supernatural as the working of miracles.

I'm going to have to give that some thought, I still do not see two kinds of faith. I see that one person can be given a stronger faith to move that mountain so to speak, or have his faith increased to do a specific work, where another is given strength in another area, thats how I take the verses above.

shalom,

Mizz

I used the term for a lack of a better way to explain it. Faith is faith, and I should of stated the explanation by the amount of faith one has. That may be better. Yet, there is a difference no matter how it is worded.

A friend said this to me,

"the one who hears from God that God wishes to move a mountain, then moves out of the way, he is exercising faith. Only the one who hears from God first, can exercise faith. Others exercise presumption. The difference can be told by the observer. If the mountain moves, the speaker was acting in faith, if it doesn't presumption. This makes saving faith and the faith of miracles one and the same. If a person believes God and accepts His gift of eternal life, has heard God first. Hence, his faith is a faith bringing about salvation. However, faith can bring about more than that."

Faith is all about our trust in Him, how we react to Him, how we react to others because of what He has done for us, living out that trust/faith as we grow in listening and doing His word. I hope that makes sense, I am writing with a wonderful migraine throbbing in my head so it may not!

shalom,

Mizz

How your friend worded what they said does not make sense to me, but yes, faith is faith, but if it was the same, then why would it be considered a gift?

I wondered about that! I didn't want to copy and paste the entire email so tried to put just this part out, sorry it wasn't clearer! If we hear God calling us to do something, say feed a homeless person, we have faith that we are to be doing that but instead we only pray or bless that person instead of feeding them as God has called us to to. I see that as ignoring the true calling of faith, faith comes by hearing the word correct? so if God calls us to do and we do not we are not exercising that gift of faith, that call of trust that lets us know God will do what He says and our faith or trust that He will help us to what He ask has failed to increase. I don't see faith as some kind of mental exercise so to speak, I see faith as something we live out, we act upon from within, acting upon my deeply held beliefs or convictions that He is God, He can and will do what He says so I must also do as He says with my actions. So to me if my faith doesn't lead me to do for others who are in need, whatever need, I fail or fall down on the job to act on that true faith that comes from above. Well not sure if thats how others see it but thats how I see it in a nutshell.

shalom,

Mizz

[Believer112]

"the one who hears from God that God wishes to move a mountain, then moves out of the way, he is exercising faith. Only the one who hears from God first, can exercise faith. Others exercise presumption

I have faith and belief in God and will take it to the chopping block if that time comes (just like all of you). God saved my mother’s life, thru an audible voice; almost two years ago, and healed her, among other things.

Does one needs to hear God’s voice about something already commanded or promised in the word of God?

The withered fig tree, everyone believes God can do it but not everyone believes in themselves. We tend to ask God about the mountain instead of speaking to the mountain about what God said. Thus Jesus said:

Mark 11:23-24 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. (24) Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them. Mark 16: 15-18???

Luke 10: ⁹ And heal the sick there, and say to them, ‘The kingdom of God has come near to you.’

Matthew 10: ⁷ And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ ⁸ Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.

The gift of Healing would be like a shadow healing someone or to touch someone’s garment; so the gift of Faith must be extraordinary.

There’s power in Jesus Name!

Mark 9: ³⁸ Now John answered Him, saying, “Teacher, we saw someone who does not follow us casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow us.”

³⁹ But Jesus said, “Do not forbid him, for no one who works a miracle in My name can soon afterward speak evil of Me.

[OneLight]

I wondered about that! I didn't want to copy and paste the entire email so tried to put just this part out, sorry it wasn't clearer! If we hear God calling us to do something, say feed a homeless person, we have faith that we are to be doing that but instead we only pray or bless that person instead of feeding them as God has called us to to. I see that as ignoring the true calling of faith, faith comes by hearing the word correct? so if God calls us to do and we do not we are not exercising that gift of faith, that call of trust that lets us know God will do what He says and our faith or trust that He will help us to what He ask has failed to increase. I don't see faith as some kind of mental exercise so to speak, I see faith as something we live out, we act upon from within, acting upon my deeply held beliefs or convictions that He is God, He can and will do what He says so I must also do as He says with my actions. So to me if my faith doesn't lead me to do for others who are in need, whatever need, I fail or fall down on the job to act on that true faith that comes from above. Well not sure if thats how others see it but thats how I see it in a nutshell.

shalom,

Mizz

Can you tell me why Paul would include faith as a gift, given at the will of the Holy Spirit then? It is listed with all the other gifts:

1 Corinthians 12:4-11

"4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:

8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,

9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,

10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills."

Then Paul adds in verses 29-31: "Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way."

Maybe I should ask if you believe in the gifts that are listed in 1 Cor 12 as being operational still today? It seems that you think the gift of faith specially given by the Holy Spirit is no different then our everyday faith.

[mizzdy]

Can you tell me why Paul would include faith as a gift, given at the will of the Holy Spirit then? It is listed with all the other gifts:

1 Corinthians 12:4-11

"4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:

8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,

9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,

10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills."

Then Paul adds in verses 29-31: "Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way."

Maybe I should ask if you believe in the gifts that are listed in 1 Cor 12 as being operational still today? It seems that you think the gift of faith specially given by the Holy Spirit is no different then our everyday faith.

Yes I believe that the gifts are still in operation today. What I do not think is that they are present as some do, a constant gift, I believe God gives us the gift of prophecy, or healing or any of the other when it is His will that they are needed. All things are for His glory and He is the one who supplies us with the gifts for His purposes not for ours. What true gift is given to someone who does not have the need to give it? Personally I do not think we are given the gift unless there is a need for it. Can not God increase our faith when its called for? For instance I cannot move a mountain even though I know that through Him all things are possible. Knowing that we each have given our lives over to Him He works through us, so therefor if there is a need to 'move a mountain' being equal to lifting a car off of someone, wouldn't that be the 'gift of faith' that is needed to lift that car? If I cry out to Him knowing full well that He is there in all times of troubles and I could not on my own lift the car off a person but know that He can do so where I cannot. To me that is the gift of faith, not a new faith but increased allowing me to do His will.

shalom,

Mizz

[OneLight]

Can you tell me why Paul would include faith as a gift, given at the will of the Holy Spirit then? It is listed with all the other gifts:

1 Corinthians 12:4-11

"4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:

8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,

9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,

10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills."

Then Paul adds in verses 29-31: "Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way."

Maybe I should ask if you believe in the gifts that are listed in 1 Cor 12 as being operational still today? It seems that you think the gift of faith specially given by the Holy Spirit is no different then our everyday faith.

Yes I believe that the gifts are still in operation today. What I do not think is that they are present as some do, a constant gift, I believe God gives us the gift of prophecy, or healing or any of the other when it is His will that they are needed. All things are for His glory and He is the one who supplies us with the gifts for His purposes not for ours. What true gift is given to someone who does not have the need to give it? Personally I do not think we are given the gift unless there is a need for it. Can not God increase our faith when its called for? For instance I cannot move a mountain even though I know that through Him all things are possible. Knowing that we each have given our lives over to Him He works through us, so therefor if there is a need to 'move a mountain' being equal to lifting a car off of someone, wouldn't that be the 'gift of faith' that is needed to lift that car? If I cry out to Him knowing full well that He is there in all times of troubles and I could not on my own lift the car off a person but know that He can do so where I cannot. To me that is the gift of faith, not a new faith but increased allowing me to do His will.

shalom,

Mizz

That is basically what I have said, except I did not say it was just an increase in the faith we now have. I am open to that idea and am not closed minded to explanations. I would say it is supernatural faith that does not normally dwell in a believer. That makes such faith a gift.

I also agree 100% about when and how the gifts work, as He wills, not for all time.