Creation???

[ByFaithAlone]

Hello All:

Another interesting topic coming right up.... Creation.... how long did it take?

According to Richard Deem:

"The age of the earth and the universe is no longer disputed among most scientists. Science tells us the earth is ~4.5 x 109 years old. The universe is ~14 x 109 years old. There have been several Christian scientists who have attempted to propose theories and find "scientific" evidence that the earth is only 6,000 years old. All "evidence" for a recent creation of the earth is flawed in some way"

I would agree with Deem that most evidence regarding a 6000 year old earth is flawed in one way or another. Stellar evolution clearly shows that the universe must be older then many YEC like to believe.

Yom is the Hebrew word commonly translated as day. However, it can mean three different things (12 hours, 24 hours or an incredibly long period of time). Which do you believe is the correct use? Why?

I will bring up my evidence later to support the last definition but right now I need to eat lunch. Hopefully I'll have some interesting replies when I get back...

[rollinTHUNDER]

Six literal 24 hour days as stated in Genesis. There was evening and morning after each day.

[OneLight]

When God tells us it took 6-24 hour days, and scientist tells us that it too thousands of years, I am faced with the question ... Whom do I believe? I choose God and until He tells me otherwise. I will stick to what scripture tells me.

[other one]

It would depend on whether you're speaking of Genesis 1:1 or Genesis 1:2 from my viewpoint.

[ByFaithAlone]

Six literal 24 hour days as stated in Genesis. There was evening and morning after each day.

Ok. I understand where you are coming from. I used to be a YEC too.

First, let's get some terminology down and why I don't believe in the 24 hour yom theory

ereb - evening or ending

boquer - morning or beginning

yom - day (12 hour), day (24 hour), long period of time

These words do not necessarily indicate 24 hour days:

A thousand years in your sight are like a day [yom] that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night. - Psalm 90:4

Here the psalmist compares a yom to a thousand years.

You have swept them away like a flood, they fall asleep; In the morning [boqer] they are like grass which sprouts anew. In the morning [boqer] it flourishes and sprouts anew; Toward evening [ereb] it fades and withers away. - Psalm 90:5-6

Now we know that human beings do not "fade and wither" in one literal 24 hour day. Therefore it seems more logical to assume it means beginning and ending.

Additionally, from Richard Deem:

"On the third day, God formed the land out of the seas. There is no time frame given for the formation of the land and seas. Some time after the land was formed, God created the plants:

Then God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit after their kind, with seed in them, on the earth"; and it was so. (Genesis 1:11)

And the earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit, with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good. (Genesis 1:12)

The text clearly states that the earth "sprouted" the plants (the Hebrew word deshe,5 Strong's #H1877, usually refers to grasses). The Hebrew word dasha,6 (Strong's #H1876) indicates that the plants grew from either seeds or small seedlings in order to have "sprouted." In addition, these plants produced seeds. The Hebrew word here is zera (Strong's #H2233), which is most often translated "descendants." This makes matters very difficult for the 24-hour interpretation. Not only do the plants sprout and grow to maturity, but produce seed or descendants. There are no plants capable of doing this within a 24-hour period of time. Things actually get worse for this interpretation. Genesis 1:12 clearly states that God allowed the earth to bring forth trees that bore fruit. The process by which the earth brings forth trees to the point of bearing fruit takes several years, at minimum. God did not create the trees already bearing fruit. The text states clearly that He allowed the earth to accomplish the process of fruit bearing through natural means. Because the process of the third day requires a minimum period of time of more than 24 hours, the Genesis text for the third day clearly falsifies the interpretation that the days of Genesis one are 24-hour periods of time."

Also, God said that his word had been proclaimed for 1,000 generations (about 30,000-40,000 years)

Know therefore that the LORD your God, He is God, the faithful God, who keeps His covenant and His lovingkindness to a thousandth generation with those who love Him and keep His commandments;(Deuteronomy 7:9)

Remember His covenant forever, The word which He commanded to a thousand generations, (1 Chronicles 16:15)

He has remembered His covenant forever, The word which He commanded to a thousand generations (Psalm 105:8)

[ByFaithAlone]

When God tells us it took 6-24 hour days, and scientist tells us that it too thousands of years, I am faced with the question ... Whom do I believe? I choose God and until He tells me otherwise. I will stick to what scripture tells me.

Maybe they don't contradict...

[ByFaithAlone]

It would depend on whether you're speaking of Genesis 1:1 or Genesis 1:2 from my viewpoint.

What do you mean by this? Please present both sides so I can see what you're getting at...

[Guest shiloh357]

Ok. I understand where you are coming from. I used to be a YEC too.

First, let's get some terminology down and why I don't believe in the 24 hour yom theory

ereb - evening or ending

boquer - morning or beginning

yom - day (12 hour), day (24 hour), long period of time

These words do not necessarily indicate 24 hour days:

A thousand years in your sight are like a day [yom] that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night. - Psalm 90:4

Here the psalmist compares a yom to a thousand years.

He is not saying that 1000 years = one day with God. He is using a similie, a figure of speech to illustrate a bigger point. The Psalmist is brief transitory nature of human life. God does not die and is unchanging. He lives outside linear time and so his perspective on life is quite a bit different than are own. No one has ever lived to 1,000 years of age.

The REAL comaprison being made is the eternal, unchanging existence of God vs. the fragile, temporary, every changing existence of man.

As for the word yom in creation... If God wanted to tell us that each unit of creation was accomplished in long epochs of thousands or even millions of years, there are other words in Hebrew rather than yom that could have been used. The word olam is one such word.

Furthermore when other places in the Bible reference the the days of creation, they do not make any attempt to communicate that those days were anything other than regular, 24-hour days (Exod. 20:11 31:17).

You need to keep in mind that the creation of the world/universe was a supernatural event authored by an all-powerful, all-knowing God who also guides and sustains it down to the very last atom. From what we see in Scripture, He micro-manages every aspect of creation. So given that, the notion that He created all of this in 6 days is a valid position and is the one view that is faithful to the plain and intended meaning of the biblical text.

If you are going to approach it biblically, then you need to show from the Scriptures that the Bible intended something other than the plain sense of the word yom in Gen. 1.

[Shiloh62]

It took 6 days, and God rested on the 7th day. Genesis 1

[~candice~]

He created in 6 yom, and indeterminate period of time ago. However, the debate over the length of time it took for Him to create, is somewhat of a red herring. The length is largely unimportant. What is the larger and more critical division is the manner in which the Word is interpretted in order to arrive at your understanding of creation. (See my soapbox with shiloh).

Are you an evolutionist?