removing a church family from church

[e lansing]

Hello my extended friends, yea its been a while.

What Im looking for is just feed back, we get all types here so i want to run this by you all and see what say you.

A few months ago I had to remove a family from our church. A year ago had a young couple want to get married by me. I told them sure and sat with them to let them kow what needs to done in order for it to happen. At first they where good with what needed to happen. two weeks go by and I had not heard from them, i would see them and ask how is everything going, they said fine. Not to long after that we have our yearly fathers day outting I found out that they got an apartment together and had been living together for a few months now. I told them I could not marry them now. I still allowed them to come to church. The young lady has an older brother who has been coming to our church for years and was one of my leaders. I found out that he had been telling his sister that living together was not a sin, since they were getting married any way! I had no Idea he had this view. I talked with him and he just disagreed with not scripture to stand on. So I waited a while. During this time I find out that they are going to church members to discuss this and were dividing the church and people, new people would just walk up to and ask me about cohabitation and other questions about our fellowship, it was just odd. So I get an oppertunity to deal with both of these and asked them to stop speaking against me and our church, they refused, so i removed them from our church for promoting sin in their sisters life and causeing division in the church. I went to my pastors above me and they were divided on my choice. i have no regrets, but this was very hard to do. What say you?

[sunnier]

Wouldn't it have been better to marry them so they no longer keep living in sin than to not marry them and they keep living in sin? After all they're already living together, have already shared a bed so it's highly unlikely they'll move out, get married (I'm assuming even then you wouldn't marry them) then move in together again. JMO is all.

[Smalcald]

Hello my extended friends, yea its been a while.

What Im looking for is just feed back, we get all types here so i want to run this by you all and see what say you.

A few months ago I had to remove a family from our church. A year ago had a young couple want to get married by me. I told them sure and sat with them to let them kow what needs to done in order for it to happen. At first they where good with what needed to happen. two weeks go by and I had not heard from them, i would see them and ask how is everything going, they said fine. Not to long after that we have our yearly fathers day outting I found out that they got an apartment together and had been living together for a few months now. I told them I could not marry them now. I still allowed them to come to church. The young lady has an older brother who has been coming to our church for years and was one of my leaders. I found out that he had been telling his sister that living together was not a sin, since they were getting married any way! I had no Idea he had this view. I talked with him and he just disagreed with not scripture to stand on. So I waited a while. During this time I find out that they are going to church members to discuss this and were dividing the church and people, new people would just walk up to and ask me about cohabitation and other questions about our fellowship, it was just odd. So I get an oppertunity to deal with both of these and asked them to stop speaking against me and our church, they refused, so i removed them from our church for promoting sin in their sisters life and causeing division in the church. I went to my pastors above me and they were divided on my choice. i have no regrets, but this was very hard to do. What say you?

You can't have this sort of thing in a congregation you did the right thing. If someone wants to speak against the pastor and the bible they should not be part of the congregation. Christianity is not a Democracy we don't vote on what is right and wrong or on the Word of God nor do we lobby to create divisions. Backbiting sewing discord, these are cancers that must be removed.

The only thing I may have done differently is when you found out they were living together was at that point to speak to them privately about why this is wrong and not something Christians can do. Many Christians today old and young honestly don't even know that this is fornication and sin. You could have offered them the chance of moving out for a couple of weeks to get the wedding together and the time to repent and walk in purity prior to their wedding. I mean this would be a great gift and a great way to start their marriage. I have had several friends who were intimate with their future spouses were convicted of the fact that this was sinful and repented and stopped for the engagement period and now really are glad that they did.

[chloe_fantastic]

I can only share what is done in our church. I am assuming the couple are both saved.

In situations such as these, the advice is very simple. Get married or move out. Our pastors will marry the couple. However, the couple is strongly urged to seek Christian marital counseling straightaway, as cohabiting before marriage often causes significant damage to the relationship.

The division is another thing entirely. I think asking them to leave was the right thing to do.

[e lansing]

Wouldn't it have been better to marry them so they no longer keep living in sin than to not marry them and they keep living in sin? After all they're already living together, have already shared a bed so it's highly unlikely they'll move out, get married (I'm assuming even then you wouldn't marry them) then move in together again. JMO is all.

I understand your point, but I am responsable not only to the Lord but those i repersent and other members who know this is not right for christians. Since they would not follow my instructions i could not marry them. thay refused to follow my direction. I had asked them seperate for one month to go through counseling, at first they were fine with this but it was her brother who had changed their minds.

[e lansing]

Hello my extended friends, yea its been a while.

What Im looking for is just feed back, we get all types here so i want to run this by you all and see what say you.

A few months ago I had to remove a family from our church. A year ago had a young couple want to get married by me. I told them sure and sat with them to let them kow what needs to done in order for it to happen. At first they where good with what needed to happen. two weeks go by and I had not heard from them, i would see them and ask how is everything going, they said fine. Not to long after that we have our yearly fathers day outting I found out that they got an apartment together and had been living together for a few months now. I told them I could not marry them now. I still allowed them to come to church. The young lady has an older brother who has been coming to our church for years and was one of my leaders. I found out that he had been telling his sister that living together was not a sin, since they were getting married any way! I had no Idea he had this view. I talked with him and he just disagreed with not scripture to stand on. So I waited a while. During this time I find out that they are going to church members to discuss this and were dividing the church and people, new people would just walk up to and ask me about cohabitation and other questions about our fellowship, it was just odd. So I get an oppertunity to deal with both of these and asked them to stop speaking against me and our church, they refused, so i removed them from our church for promoting sin in their sisters life and causeing division in the church. I went to my pastors above me and they were divided on my choice. i have no regrets, but this was very hard to do. What say you?

You can't have this sort of thing in a congregation you did the right thing. If someone wants to speak against the pastor and the bible they should not be part of the congregation. Christianity is not a Democracy we don't vote on what is right and wrong or on the Word of God nor do we lobby to create divisions. Backbiting sewing discord, these are cancers that must be removed.

The only thing I may have done differently is when you found out they were living together was at that point to speak to them privately about why this is wrong and not something Christians can do. Many Christians today old and young honestly don't even know that this is fornication and sin. You could have offered them the chance of moving out for a couple of weeks to get the wedding together and the time to repent and walk in purity prior to their wedding. I mean this would be a great gift and a great way to start their marriage. I have had several friends who were intimate with their future spouses were convicted of the fact that this was sinful and repented and stopped for the engagement period and now really are glad that they did.

I did a lot of what you said i even made the point about honoring Jesus in their relationship and that bring this sort of thing into your marriage will only make things worse. It just got to a point that her brother made them feel ok about their sin and that to me is blood on his hands and i had to deal with that quickly and i did and they are gone, still thinking that they are right in their position and are ok with no scripture to stand on. its just sad. I know it could have been handled better, i did the best i could and I know God is backing me. Thanks

e

[e lansing]

I can only share what is done in our church. I am assuming the couple are both saved.

In situations such as these, the advice is very simple. Get married or move out. Our pastors will marry the couple. However, the couple is strongly urged to seek Christian marital counseling straightaway, as cohabiting before marriage often causes significant damage to the relationship.

The division is another thing entirely. I think asking them to leave was the right thing to do.

i am wondering why would your pastor marry them? Not tring to get testy at all, but the pastors above me were split on my choice. they suppoerted me but some felt it bit harsh. I guess and this is what i said to them, "when do draw a line?" I got no response. I have also wondered if God would truly bless a marriage that both knew all along that what they were doing was sinful and did it anyway and then want Gods blessing on it. Scripture tell us that God will not be mocked. Maybe I should start a new thread and ask that question? Thanks

e

[chloe_fantastic]

I can only share what is done in our church. I am assuming the couple are both saved.

In situations such as these, the advice is very simple. Get married or move out. Our pastors will marry the couple. However, the couple is strongly urged to seek Christian marital counseling straightaway, as cohabiting before marriage often causes significant damage to the relationship.

The division is another thing entirely. I think asking them to leave was the right thing to do.

i am wondering why would your pastor marry them? Not tring to get testy at all, but the pastors above me were split on my choice. they suppoerted me but some felt it bit harsh. I guess and this is what i said to them, "when do draw a line?" I got no response. I have also wondered if God would truly bless a marriage that both knew all along that what they were doing was sinful and did it anyway and then want Gods blessing on it. Scripture tell us that God will not be mocked. Maybe I should start a new thread and ask that question? Thanks

e

Why wouldn't he marry them? If they decided to turn, repent of their fornication, want to do the right thing and be married, why would their pastor not marry them? I don't understand this. Is it a punishment? A penance? When a couple sins, should their pastor wash his hands of all involvement with them, regardless of the condition of their hearts? Surely I must be misunderstanding you. If a couple was unrepentant, I would think of greater concern would be the condition of their souls. First I would wonder whether they were saved or not, if they were able to fornicate with neither conviction nor repentance. In this instance, unless it is the habit of the pastor to marry non-Christians, I should think the pastor would not marry them, but instead to present the Gospel message to them.

I did not think you were getting testy, as I am not either. I am finding it is more difficult to get one's point across on a message board as one does not have the benefit of facial expressions, tone of voice, body language, etc.

I definately do not think you were too harsh when it came to the division issue. The kind of behavior you described cannot be tolerated. If you are in a position of leadership within that church, not only do you have that one particular family to think of. There is also the rest of the church, and no way can you stand aside and watch them lead the flock astray.

Again I am wondering what you define as "drawing the line"? Not marrying them? Asking them to leave? And on which issue? The cohabitation? Or the inciting of division?

Maybe the other pastors had those questions as well and that is why you did not get a response.

Most of us Christians, when we do sin, recognize it as sin before we sin. Do we still sin? Sometimes. Why? Because we are not perfect. We are human and we fail sometimes. That is why there is forgiveness. When we do sin, must we suffer the rest of our lives for it? What would you have this couple do? Remain unmarried and celibate for the rest of their lives? I believe there is a bigger issue here and that is a salvation issue. If this couple have truly been born again, they wil repent/be receptive to repentance when shown biblically that what they are doing is sinful. If this couple is not receptive to repentance when confronted with the biblical truth of their sin, then they are not saved, and a bigger problem than their living arrangement looms at hand for them, an eternity in Hell seperated from God, which I know that as their pastor you care about.

[Guest]

Praying For This Fellowship

[Isaiah 6:8]

I would say you did well do remove them, as long as you followed the Matthew 18 approach, first one one one, then with 2 or more then before the congregation then removed from fellowship. If not done in this way it may have cause as much damage as the gossip and slander was before.

Praying for you as I know this is not an easy thing!