removing a church family from church

[e lansing]

Hello my extended friends, yea its been a while.

What Im looking for is just feed back, we get all types here so i want to run this by you all and see what say you.

A few months ago I had to remove a family from our church. A year ago had a young couple want to get married by me. I told them sure and sat with them to let them kow what needs to done in order for it to happen. At first they where good with what needed to happen. two weeks go by and I had not heard from them, i would see them and ask how is everything going, they said fine. Not to long after that we have our yearly fathers day outting I found out that they got an apartment together and had been living together for a few months now. I told them I could not marry them now. I still allowed them to come to church. The young lady has an older brother who has been coming to our church for years and was one of my leaders. I found out that he had been telling his sister that living together was not a sin, since they were getting married any way! I had no Idea he had this view. I talked with him and he just disagreed with not scripture to stand on. So I waited a while. During this time I find out that they are going to church members to discuss this and were dividing the church and people, new people would just walk up to and ask me about cohabitation and other questions about our fellowship, it was just odd. So I get an oppertunity to deal with both of these and asked them to stop speaking against me and our church, they refused, so i removed them from our church for promoting sin in their sisters life and causeing division in the church. I went to my pastors above me and they were divided on my choice. i have no regrets, but this was very hard to do. What say you?

Hello e lansing,

I have read your above post and considered it with interest and measure plus have read about half of the responses. There is a Biblical remedy spelled out clearly in several areas of the New Testament and, based solely by what you have posted in the first post, I do not see it fully followed. Understand that I am not judging you or your actions but, looking at the reproof via the light of Scripture. Paul clearly rebuked the Corinthians for not judging sin in their local body (1 Cor. 5 and 6). But the expose' on "how" begins in Galatians:

Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

So we see the methodology prescribed with warning that we be aware of our own limitations and approach the person humbly in the Holy Spirit and meekness (without our own pride and agenda involved). Often, we as Pastors and leaders can be more offended by actions of congregants fearing an "undermining" is under way to divide the congregation but, more so, to "dethrone" ourselves. Handling these matters in the wrong way will actually further satan's agenda to do just that.

But Jesus said it best on how we are commanded to handle such:

Matt 18:15-17 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

In every situation, each individual must be dealt with individually and ourselves void of any "self" agendas or personal fears of outcome. Each one must be dealt with personally first between them and the offended one or the Pastorate of the Church. If they will not repent nor listen and continue, then take witnesses. You had said there is a group of Pastors over you and these would be the ones most likely to take with you. Once it is established before yourself and the witnesses that this person is not willing to repent (whether it is living in sin or, the sin of gossip and division), and they refuse to listen to the Spiritual heads over that congregation, then it must be given as a witness against them before the congregation. Keep in mind that all of these actions from the beginning to the last must be done in humility and lead of the Holy Spirit. A Pastorate and Church that practices this Biblical prescription will only grow and satan is defeated in his attempts to undermine the local body of Christ. Oh, some will leave on their own accord. And some of the congregation will not ostracize the guilty parties but, if the Full Gospel and teachings of Christ are preached continuously and the Holy Ghost is not restrained in that Church, I guarantee you the "Kitchen will become too hot" for the guilty to remain without repenting.

If you have time maybe you could read the rest of the posting and you will see that I carried out my role as pastor of this church and did inquire of the pastors who are over me at our mother church. My church is plant. Thanks for sharing

e

[e lansing]

If a man and a women are passionately in love with each other, why wait.

Knowing that you mean "why wait to marry", I'm gonna submit something that may be hard for people to do, which they may indeed not do, but is still good medicine.

They would be wise to wait for this reason (I say wise because I'm not going so far as to say right or wrong but wise, to which there is a difference): in our society the young are growing up too fast but maturing slower than ever. They don't know what is real when it comes to the term "passionately in love" and they don't have a clue of what a true relationship really is. They are taking their cues from the likes of Snooki off of "Jersey Shore" and from their own homes that are filled with dysfunction, etc.... From the time of the generations around me (I'm 37) and on it gets progressively worse. AS A BELIEVER, if I had gotten married every time I "JUST KNEW" I was passionately in love I could have as many wives as Solomon. That was in the 90's. It is 10 fold worse now. I'm not saying that there are not young adults who can absolutely know they are in love and "meant to be" with that significant other. But that is generally the exception to the rule rather than the norm. Plus, saying such a thing as "we just knew we were suppose to be together" was made of more stern stuff when our grandfathers and great-grandfathers said it than when today's microwaveable generations say it. They're changing their minds at the same pace as changing underwear. So on the whole, I would put forth that if indeed they are passionately in love and know such a thing is "meant to be", they would be wise to see a thing grow and blossom. Time will show them and teach them much that will help ratify their "feelings" and indeed make them even stronger as a "meant to be" couple!

*sigh.....* We just can't wait for anything these days. It truly is sad that we cannot delay gratifications which would lead to better, more enriching outcomes. We can't save up a little money to pay for that item so we borrow ourselves into debt and bankruptcy because we had to have it NOW! The same is true for relationships, which in our society are just as similarly bankrupt. Such people as you suggest in your post would show maturity, wisdom, and would be well-advised to wait. There is only the rare exception to the rule. With such a covenant that God says shouldn't be undone, there is close to nothing to be gained by rashness and much to profit from delay. If humanity had the fortitude for such, I've no doubt the divorce rate would plummet (at least among believers). However, in these last days, I've little hope for such.

Elansing, what you did was right, scriptural and the godly thing to do. Yes, the painfulness and difficulty of doing so breeds some doubt about the decision. But some will say no. Some will only follow because they are fed and will show their heart as they walk away when things stop meeting their physical, fleshly needs. And a broken-hearted Jesus, watching the good but un-surrendered rich, young ruler for example, will allow them to do so.

Agreed and thanks for sharing

e

[j102]

Hello my extended friends, yea its been a while.

What Im looking for is just feed back, we get all types here so i want to run this by you all and see what say you.

A few months ago I had to remove a family from our church. A year ago had a young couple want to get married by me. I told them sure and sat with them to let them kow what needs to done in order for it to happen. At first they where good with what needed to happen. two weeks go by and I had not heard from them, i would see them and ask how is everything going, they said fine. Not to long after that we have our yearly fathers day outting I found out that they got an apartment together and had been living together for a few months now. I told them I could not marry them now. I still allowed them to come to church. The young lady has an older brother who has been coming to our church for years and was one of my leaders. I found out that he had been telling his sister that living together was not a sin, since they were getting married any way! I had no Idea he had this view. I talked with him and he just disagreed with not scripture to stand on. So I waited a while. During this time I find out that they are going to church members to discuss this and were dividing the church and people, new people would just walk up to and ask me about cohabitation and other questions about our fellowship, it was just odd. So I get an oppertunity to deal with both of these and asked them to stop speaking against me and our church, they refused, so i removed them from our church for promoting sin in their sisters life and causeing division in the church. I went to my pastors above me and they were divided on my choice. i have no regrets, but this was very hard to do. What say you?

without any more details on this matter i'll just say this the "church" has made up alot of commandments and rules that arn't really bibicly based.

it was mentioned that they were living together. However that does not mean by default that they are sleeping togather ( i know some would claim that its immoral because they would be tempted, but as it is written "even where sin abounds, grace abounds more and more, grace to stand up against temptation not to think that its ok to sin) and even paul and peter had women with them as they spread the gosple.

and also many others, myself included have found out by personal experience that the church sticks its noses where it just simply doesn't belong and by doing so causes strife and heartache leaving things worse rather than better.

and yes there is something called church discipline but it must be based on scripture and even then let scripture interprite itself in it proper context

The bold part sums it up completely. You chose to comment without bothering to actually read the entire thread, meaning you skipped over the places where we are told that they openly and without shame admitted that they were sleeping together (and lest you question it, they weren't just sleeping, but admitted to having a physically intimate relationship). And as to your other suggestion that the church was "sticking their noses where it just simply doesn't belong" you also missed the point that this couple sought out the pastor's counsel when seeking to have him marry them. Then they refused to heed his counsel and began sowing strife and discord among the rest of the church membership.

I do not mean to sound sharp or rude, but it is rarely wise for us to leap to comment upon the very first post in a thread like this one, or even on the tenth or fiftieth post if we have not taken the time to read all the posts that came before. We cannot have a full understanding of a thread without reading it's entirety. I know I have surrendered to that urge on previous occasions only to realize after further reading, or after having it blatantly pointed out to me, that I have missed a previous post that addressed my question, comments, or concerns. I not try not to be so hasty. While commenting here is not the same as having a personal, face to face conversation with someone, it is not so different when it comes to the discretion we ought to use before giving "voice" to our opinions and thoughts.

some people just happen to be more busy than others and have to make wise use of their time. like i said at the begining of my post, "WITHOUT ANY MORE DETAILS". sorry i just didnt have the time to read all the diffrent post about everyones diffrent p.o.v. on the subject... so thats why i stuck with the origanal post

I wouldn't have cared if you hadn't asserted "this the "church" has made up alot of commandments and rules that arn't really bibicly based." (Which you then chose not to actually explain. Since it seemed quite evident that they were sowing division in the church and refusing to accept that what they were doing was wrong, I do not know where you got the notion that the pastor removing them from the church was not biblically based.) Then you followed that up with the suggestion that the church was merely being nosy and getting into this couples business for no reason. This made no sense to me since it was clearly expressed that they came to the pastor themselves asking about getting married. They sought out his counsel, not the other way around. And I was hardly expecting you to seek out everyone else's point of view, since that's hardly the relevant point. I was suggesting that you would have done well to at least read e lansing's replies to others' questions, thereby gaining a deeper understanding of what had actually happened.

If you are so busy that you do not have time to read through an entire thread, then perhaps a more wise use of your time would be to merely ask for clarification of the OP instead of making accusations about how the church was using unscriptural "rules" and sticking it's nose in where it didn't belong. (IE, you could have asked if the couple was merely living under the same roof or if they had confessed to being physically intimate as well. And you could have asked how the discipline was carried out, quoting the scriptures that deal with church discipline and asking of those standards were followed, instead of simply assuming that they were not.) As I said, I've done the same thing before and have learned that it's better to just keep my mouth shut and my opinion to myself than to post a knee jerk reply to something without taking the time to get the full picture. I'm sorry if my suggestion that you do the same hurt your feelings. That was not my intent.

like i said b4 "WITHOUT ANY MORE DETAILS" and in regards to churches making up rules and commenments i was speaking in generule terms. jesus himself warned against that and rebuked the religious leaders sharply for that very thing.

and since this is an open forum i have the right to put up post in a respectfull way

[Guest]

A Pastorate and Church that practices this Biblical prescription will only grow and satan is defeated in his attempts to undermine the local body of Christ. Oh, some will leave on their own accord. And some of the congregation will not ostracize the guilty parties but, if the Full Gospel and teachings of Christ are preached continuously and the Holy Ghost is not restrained in that Church, I guarantee you the "Kitchen will become too hot" for the guilty to remain without repenting.

Hot?

So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. Isaiah 55:11

Amen~!

Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word. Psalms 119:9

____________

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe