Have the gifts of the Holy Spirit ceased?

[barnabas]

teleios - perfect 1 Cor. 13:10 (referring to the complete revelation of God's will and ways, whether in the completed Scriptures or in the hereafter);

here it is talking about the hereafter!

[Guest tanner]

the fruits of the Spirit are alive and well friend.Galatians5:22,23----But the fruit of the spirit is love, joy,peace,longsuffering,gentleness,goodness,faith,Meekness,temperance:against there is no law.

speaking in tongues ------a trick of demons

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First of all, the original scripture refferenced to in this thread is referring to the return of the Lord and when we will be perfect. The same way that the scripture says...........

1 John 3:2 - Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is

then we will be perfect..for he will catch up our body and Spirit and we will be changed into a new creature..the same as the first fuits

Acts:

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.

notice ..the promise is for everyone.....even as many as the Lord our God shall call

Acts 1:5 - For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence

Acts 1:8 - But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth

Acts 2:4 - And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance

Acts 8:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. 18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

How did Simon see that people got the Holy Ghost???

and notice.. they had believed and were baptized in Jesus name, yet the Holy Ghost was not in them.........

Acts:

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.

it says for they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God..

Acts 11:

17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

Acts 19:2 - He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost

Acts 19:

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 7 And all the men were about twelve. 8 And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.

1 Thessalonians 1:5 - For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake

Jude 1:20 - But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. 19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. 20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

notice the promise is unto them that believe......

1 Corinthians 14:39 - Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues

How can someone attribute the Holy Ghost to demons?

I pray for us all !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest tanner]

There are some who believe that tongues is a gift for every believer, a promise. This is certainly way opposite the belief that they don't even exist anymore. Interesting how we use one Bible and yet land on completely different paths.

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first of all the bible refers to two forms of tongues

Acts 2:4 - And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance

other tongues is when you initially receive the Holy Ghost...notice that there were some foreigners there when the 120 originally recieved the Holy Ghost and they could hear them talk in their own language.....that is what happens when you initially recieve the Holy Ghost........

the unknown tongue is after you first recieve the Holy Ghost and is used in the operation of the church and or praying alone. It is the Spirit praying for us.......

Paul lays out how it should be used in the operation within the church, the most important thind to remember is that it is the Spirit of God, therefore he is in control. In the church tongues should be followed with gift of interpretation, so that all can hear what God is saying....

1 Corinthians 14:21 - In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord

1 Corinthians 14:2 - For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries

1 Corinthians 14:4 - He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church

Corinthians 14:13 - Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret

1 Corinthians 14:14 - For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful

1 Corinthians 14:19 - Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue

1 Corinthians 14:27 - If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret

[Arthur Durnan]

Apostles & prophets were part & parcel of the FOUNDATion of the Church before the completion of Holy Writ. If not, precisely WHO was Apostle 13,14,15,16, etc. Why in the universe would one desire Apostles when we now have the settled, reliable, authoritative & completed Holy Scriptures of Truth? Isn't the Holy Bible sufficient for some kind hearts? Excellent question indeed.

Then, too, re healings: God can heal, but not all are healed today. Perhaps the vast majority are NOT healed. Our own demise in time is evidence of that. Biblical healings were FREE, (USUALLY) IMMEDIATE, OFTEN CONGENITAL, and never simply the "twitching of one's ear" or bringing only "the finished product" onto a platform. Healings that cannot heal AIDS victims, or "Miracle Services" that cannot be held in CEMETERIES re the (biblical) raising of the dead pronounce ICHABOD on themselves. Where is the "faith healer" today who would dare attempt to roll back, say, the mighty Euphrates River in order to allow the forces of liberation easier access to final victory over Muslim terrorists? If the Lord God can heal anyone at any time of anything, why don't "faith healers" ever pray over severed, mutilated or lost limbs? But the bottom-line is, of course, as stated above, the mighty ability of Jehovah to bring the dead back to life! Ask Eutychus. Ask Lazarus. Ask the Widow of Nain's son. JESUS CERTAINLY CAN! So, why can't the Copelands, Roberts, Allens, Hinns, etc. accomplish such?

And, of course, re "speaking in tongues" (better, languages), how come 99.9% of Pentecostal/charismatic "tongues" are simply a "heavenly gibberish", a "divine mumbo-jumbo" which is totally UNKNOWN in Holy Writ? ALL biblical "tongues" are KNOWN, EARTHLY, NATIONAL, UNDERSTOOD dialects whether Hebrew, Greek, Arabic, Aramaic, etc. The very classic passage of ACTS 2 refers to the actual language-groups hearing and KNOWING their language being spoken! Could words be plainer. NO "gibberish" in sight in Acts Chapter 2.

The Scriptures are quite emphatic in stating that "the LAW of the Lord (His Holy Word!) is PERFECT, converting the soul." Jude tells us (in the original) that it was "delivered once FOR ALL TIME to the saints." Quite clear and very interesting.

Thank You, Jesus, for Liberation and the Light of Your Settled Word!

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[Guest tanner]

Apostles & prophets were part & parcel of the FOUNDATion of the Church before the completion of Holy Writ. If not, precisely WHO was Apostle 13,14,15,16, etc. Why in the universe would one desire Apostles when we now have the settled, reliable, authoritative & completed Holy Scriptures of Truth? Isn't the Holy Bible sufficient for some kind hearts? Excellent question indeed.

Then, too, re healings: God can heal, but not all are healed today. Perhaps the vast majority are NOT healed. Our own demise in time is evidence of that. Biblical healings were FREE, (USUALLY) IMMEDIATE, OFTEN CONGENITAL, and never simply the "twitching of one's ear" or bringing only "the finished product" onto a platform. Healings that cannot heal AIDS victims, or "Miracle Services" that cannot be held in CEMETERIES re the (biblical) raising of the dead pronounce ICHABOD on themselves. Where is the "faith healer" today who would dare attempt to roll back, say, the mighty Euphrates River in order to allow the forces of liberation easier access to final victory over Muslim terrorists? If the Lord God can heal anyone at any time of anything, why don't "faith healers" ever pray over severed, mutilated or lost limbs? But the bottom-line is, of course, as stated above, the mighty ability of Jehovah to bring the dead back to life! Ask Eutychus. Ask Lazarus. Ask the Widow of Nain's son. JESUS CERTAINLY CAN! So, why can't the Copelands, Roberts, Allens, Hinns, etc. accomplish such?

And, of course, re "speaking in tongues" (better, languages), how come 99.9% of Pentecostal/charismatic "tongues" are simply a "heavenly gibberish", a "divine mumbo-jumbo" which is totally UNKNOWN in Holy Writ? ALL biblical "tongues" are KNOWN, EARTHLY, NATIONAL, UNDERSTOOD dialects whether Hebrew, Greek, Arabic, Aramaic, etc. The very classic passage of ACTS 2 refers to the actual language-groups hearing and KNOWING their language being spoken! Could words be plainer. NO "gibberish" in sight in Acts Chapter 2.

The Scriptures are quite emphatic in stating that "the LAW of the Lord (His Holy Word!) is PERFECT, converting the soul." Jude tells us (in the original) that it was "delivered once FOR ALL TIME to the saints." Quite clear and very interesting.

Thank You, Jesus, for Liberation and the Light of Your Settled Word!

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

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Let's see I allready posted the scriptures that spell out exactly what speaking in tongues are... one is the intital evidence of recieving the Holy Ghost, which would be in a language someone on Earth at some time and or point would know per the scripture. Second after you recieve the Holy Ghost, the word says that it is a language that no one but God only can understand, unless it comes with interpretation and as far as the word says, we are told to always pray in the Holy Ghost, for it builds up our faith.

I did not no that the promise stopped at Revelation.. for the word says that the promise is unto you and to them that are afar off , even as many as the Lord our God shall call!

2 Timothy 3:16 - All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

[oliveoil]

I want to thank each of you for your posts here. Although I must confess I didn't read them all. I still enjoyed the debate. Its been a long time since I got saved and these were the kind of debates we were having then. I see the church hasn't changed much over the years. I think the original post was answered so I won't go there but someone asked why we don't see much of the gifts working in America. I think the reason being is that we can't get past this point in our christian walk. Its like man is going around in a circle debating these little things. How can we take another bite of meat when we our mouths are still full from the last bite.