Wine and Alcohol

[winsomebulldog]

Not to confuse the issue, but I just have to post something I hear all the time. I don't agree with it, but I hear it. I've heard more than one preacher teach that all alcohol is "bad." One of them was, shall we say, not real grounded in a lot of what he taught and thought. He preached against all forms of alcohol and made a very firm distinction between "wine" and "fruit of the vine." Not that they aren't two different things, they obviously are. He just made a big deal of bringing up that difference and basically boiling it all down to "wine" is evil and "fruit of the vine" is grape juice and therefore just fine. Yet, when it was pointed out to him that Jesus turned water into wine, this preacher always found a way to avoid dealing with it. Mostly because I assume he had no way to fit it into his "all alcohol is evil" philosophy.

The other preacher takes a slightly different approach. He believes all alcohol is evil, but makes no real distinction between the word "wine" and plain old grape juice. Basically, he believes that the wine Jesus created at that wedding was "non-alcoholic." I can only assume that he believes the same about any and all other instances where wine is mentioned in anything other than a "bad" light. He's very fond of Proverbs 20:1- Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

As a small bit of background on these men, both are admitted alcoholics who went "on the wagon" several decades back.

Frankly, I find both of these interpretations absurd. However, I do not argue with them about it. Because as Dragoon already mentioned, some things are stumbling blocks for one while being of no consequence to another.

One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.

(Ro 14:5-8)

As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men. Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.

(Ro 14:14-21)

Obviously, if these two men are alcoholics, they should never drink any alcohol. Moderation is not something they can do. And so, they should never drink, period. As I highlighted above, to these two men, all alcohol is "unclean" so if they were to partake, in their minds and hearts, they would have sinned. I have no such conviction. While I believe drunkenness is wrong, I do not feel any conviction that alcohol itself is evil. It, like so many other things, is fine so long as it is not abused. Having said that, I don't drink. I don't like to. I have never even tried beer, though I have had a few low alcohol wine cooler type things throughout the course of my life that I liked okay. I have tried wine and don't much care for it either. The only exception being a fantastic red I had while on a dinner cruise in London a decade ago. So, I don't drink because I don't like the taste of alcohol. Simple as that. I do not, however, think alcohol itself is "evil," and I see no Scripture that suggests it is.

[Fez]

[

Except extramarital sex...... that would have a tendency to get you killed in my house even in moderation.. LoL

[sheya joie]

I cannot drink because the smell makes me queasy.

[Dragoon]

Not to confuse the issue, but I just have to post something I hear all the time. I don't agree with it, but I hear it. I've heard more than one preacher teach that all alcohol is "bad." One of them was, shall we say, not real grounded in a lot of what he taught and thought. He preached against all forms of alcohol and made a very firm distinction between "wine" and "fruit of the vine." Not that they aren't two different things, they obviously are. He just made a big deal of bringing up that difference and basically boiling it all down to "wine" is evil and "fruit of the vine" is grape juice and therefore just fine. Yet, when it was pointed out to him that Jesus turned water into wine, this preacher always found a way to avoid dealing with it. Mostly because I assume he had no way to fit it into his "all alcohol is evil" philosophy.

The other preacher takes a slightly different approach. He believes all alcohol is evil, but makes no real distinction between the word "wine" and plain old grape juice. Basically, he believes that the wine Jesus created at that wedding was "non-alcoholic." I can only assume that he believes the same about any and all other instances where wine is mentioned in anything other than a "bad" light. He's very fond of Proverbs 20:1- Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

As a small bit of background on these men, both are admitted alcoholics who went "on the wagon" several decades back.

Frankly, I find both of these interpretations absurd. However, I do not argue with them about it. Because as Dragoon already mentioned, some things are stumbling blocks for one while being of no consequence to another.

One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.

(Ro 14:5-8)

As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men. Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.

(Ro 14:14-21)

Obviously, if these two men are alcoholics, they should never drink any alcohol. Moderation is not something they can do. And so, they should never drink, period. As I highlighted above, to these two men, all alcohol is "unclean" so if they were to partake, in their minds and hearts, they would have sinned. I have no such conviction. While I believe drunkenness is wrong, I do not feel any conviction that alcohol itself is evil. It, like so many other things, is fine so long as it is not abused. Having said that, I don't drink. I don't like to. I have never even tried beer, though I have had a few low alcohol wine cooler type things throughout the course of my life that I liked okay. I have tried wine and don't much care for it either. The only exception being a fantastic red I had while on a dinner cruise in London a decade ago. So, I don't drink because I don't like the taste of alcohol. Simple as that. I do not, however, think alcohol itself is "evil," and I see no Scripture that suggests it is.

I find the Chinese house church movement does a good job of walking an honest path on this.

The Chinese house churches are teach strongly that alchohol is bad and should not be drunk by Chinese Christians. They do not say that scrpture teaches that wine itself is bad, but rather that because of the rampant alchoholism and alchohol abuse in China (especially within the business world), the body of Christ should be alchohol free as a witness and to not cause brethren to stumble. This obviously has a variety of implications and impacts upon how the world sees the church there.

[MeLessHimMore]

[oldzimm]

What do you believe to be the case?

After much thought, I believe I'll have another beer.

I think I will join you, cheers.

No sense making it a private party, I'll join you. Is it BYOB?

I think I just crashed a party?