How much influence does the Pope have

[Guest koppen]

Senerhu....

I give up, I give up...Texas wins!!!!

:hug:

thank you all... :hug:

YEAH...NO I WIN!...LOL...

No ma'am-next month the St. Louis Cardinals will finish the trounce they started on the American League, going 11-1 against them, with a 4 game world series sweep!

[senerhu]

Senerhu....

I give up, I give up...Texas wins!!!!

:hug:

thank you all... :hug:

YEAH...NO I WIN!...LOL...

No ma'am-next month the St. Louis Cardinals will finish the trounce they started on the American League, going 11-1 against them, with a 4 game world series sweep!

Wouldn't that be nice...against the yankees no less...

[Kabowd]

The Pope might earn some respect from me, however, if he were a SOONER fan.

[RGR]

Senerhu....

I give up, I give up...Texas wins!!!!

:hug:

thank you all... :hug:

YEAH...NO I WIN!...LOL...

No ma'am-next month the St. Louis Cardinals will finish the trounce they started on the American League, going 11-1 against them, with a 4 game world series sweep!

Okay, so I got a bit I guess! A little isn't bad now and then!!!! I probably need for my nutcase self, but you can still tell me . BTW, I "borrowed" some of your smilies and uploaded them into my Photobucket account-that LOL one is cute.

[senerhu]

Senerhu....

I give up, I give up...Texas wins!!!!

:hug:

thank you all... :hug:

YEAH...NO I WIN!...LOL...

No ma'am-next month the St. Louis Cardinals will finish the trounce they started on the American League, going 11-1 against them, with a 4 game world series sweep!

Okay, so I got a bit I guess! A little isn't bad now and then!!!! I probably need for my nutcase self, but you can still tell me . BTW, I "borrowed" some of your smilies and uploaded them into my Photobucket account-that LOL one is cute.

she's gittin good at that sort of thing...

[RGR]

BTW, I know there are some who would wonder what a discussion of baseball would have to do with the Pope. All one has to do is think about it-the Pope himself was a Cardinal at one time as have other Popes! Who knows, Albert Pujols might be in line to be a Pope!

[senerhu]

BTW, I know there are some who would wonder what a discussion of baseball would have to do with the Pope. All one has to do is think about it-the Pope himself was a Cardinal at one time as have other Popes! Who knows, Albert Pujols might be in line to be a Pope!

only you Ronald, ...only you...LOL...

[RGR]

BTW, I know there are some who would wonder what a discussion of baseball would have to do with the Pope.  All one has to do is think about it-the Pope himself was a Cardinal at one time as have other Popes!  Who knows, Albert Pujols might be in line to be a Pope!

only you Ronald, ...only you...LOL...

[Guest Liv4Him2]

veneration of Mary as a member of the Godhead, etc.

We do not worship Mary or venerate her as a member of the Godhead.

Name another mother who was addressed by a messenger from GOD, the Angel named Gabriel, who asked that she consent to be the Mother of GOD?

The words given to Gabriel by the Father:

"Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women." Luke 1:28.

Mary is the only person in the entire Bible to be called "Blessed art thou among women".

and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit and she exclaimed with a loud cry, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For behold, when the voice of your greeting came to my ears, the babe in my womb leaped for joy. And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfilment of what was spoken to her from the Lord." Luke 1:39-45

And Mary said,

"My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, for he has regarded the low estate of his handmaiden. For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed; for he who is mighty has done great things for me, and Holy is His name." Luke 1:46-49

Venerate: "To regard with respect, reverence, or heartfelt deference."

One of the 10 Commandments is "Honor your Father and your Mother." Do you honor your father and mother? Do you respect them? These are the things Catholics do for their parents, and for the Blessed Virgin Mary.

Worship: "The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity"

Do you worship your parents? Certainly not, and neither do Catholics worship theirs. However, it is perfectly alright to venerate them and for Catholics to venerate the Blessed Virgin Mary.

I also believe that the Catholic people hold him up like a God to the point of Idolatry

"I hope to come to you soon, but I am writing these instructions to you so that, if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth."

1Timothy 3:14-15 (Notice the Bible states that the church is the pillar of truth)

It is the Church which has the truth of the teaching of Christ. The Church is His Body (Ephesians 5:23) and so it must be truth, as He is truth. The teaching of His Church is infallible, as He is infallible.

GOD has always spoken to His people through a father figure,

be it Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Peter (John 21:15-17, Acts 15:7), and others. Since it is a known fact that GOD never changes (Malachi 3:6, Hebrews 13:8, James 1:17), He is the same today as He was in the time of those Biblical figures. He speaks to His Church through the present day "Peter", the successor to the Biblical Peter, today's Bishop of Rome.

He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

Luke 10:16

This is but one of the promises of authority which Jesus Christ gave to His Apostles.

Can you see the deeper meaning of the first six words of Luke 10:16?

The deeper teaching reads like this, 'He who hears me through your mouth will never hear anything but the absolute truth'. It has the meaning of that, 'through His Church the Apostles and their descendants will be prevented by GOD Himself from teaching anything other than the absolute truth'.

Down through almost two-thousand years of recorded history of the Church which Jesus Christ founded, and with a succession of two hundred sixty three Bishops of Rome (Popes), not one Pope has ever taught error from the Chair of Peter on the matter of faith and morals, and all of this in spite of a handful of 'less than holy' popes (remember, Jesus Himself chose one 'less than holy' Apostle, by the name of Judas).

[Kabowd]

Oh yay, looks like this could turn into a Protestant/Catholic debate...lol. Since you brought this up, there are a few things that confuse me (regarding Catholicism), if you'd like to explain.

DISCLAIMER: this is not an attack on Catholics or Catholicism. While I don't understand and disagree with much of the Catholic doctrine, I'm not foolish enough to believe that all Catholics are the same or that they cannot also be christians. That being said, here we go....

We do not worship Mary or venerate her as a member of the Godhead.

Venerate: "To regard with respect, reverence, or heartfelt deference."

One of the 10 Commandments is "Honor your Father and your Mother." Do you honor your father and mother? Do you respect them? These are the things Catholics do for their parents, and for the Blessed Virgin Mary.

If you don't venerate her as you would a member of the Godhead, why do you pray to her? Can you show me anywhere in Scripture that we are taught that we should pray to her, or any other person who is not part of the Trinity? As I was taught, the Scripture states that there is one Mediator between God and man, Jesus Christ. (I Tim. 2:5; Heb. 8:6; 12:24). Respecting and honoring does not necessitate praying to someone. I respect and honor my parents, but I do not pray to them.

Name another mother who was addressed by a messenger from GOD, the Angel named Gabriel, who asked that she consent to be the Mother of GOD?

The words given to Gabriel by the Father:

"Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women." Luke 1:28.

And Abraham was called "the father of many nations" and God Himself said he would be blessed so that he could be a blessing. Do you address father Abraham in your prayers also?

I'm curious why Mary's motherhood is significant. Sure, her womb was inhabited by the Savior but I find it more significant that following the Savior's fulfillment of His purpose, He inhabits all believers in our hearts (through the work of the Holy Spirit).

Mary is the only person in the entire Bible to be called "Blessed art thou among women".

Let's look at the meaning of "blessed". The Greek word is "eulogeo" which is a combination of two words: "eu" (meaning: to be well off, fare well, prosper) and "logeo" (derived from "logos" meaning: a word, or thought of the mind - if I'm not mistaken, it's where we get our word "logic"). I'm not a Greek scholar, but I don't think you have to be one to see that being "blessed" or called "blessed" does not elevate someone's status to divinity. Mary may have been thought of as "prosperous" among women, but she is by no means the only one who was ever to be blessed. In Mark 14:22, the very same word "eulogeo" is used to say that Jesus "blessed the bread". The bread was blessed. Do you also pray to bread? In Luke 19:16, Jesus blessed the loaves and fishes. Do you also pray to fish? More importantly, according to Galatians 3:9, I am called "blessed" (along with all of those in Christ) ... if you've been praying to me, I'm sorry to say I haven't been hearing your prayers.

".. just as Abraham "believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."Therefore know that [only] those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, [saying], "In you all the nations shall be blessed." So then those who [are] of faith are blessed with believing Abraham. For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed [is] everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them." But that no one is *justified by the law in the sight of God [is] evident, for "the just shall live by faith." Yet the law is not of faith, but "the man who does them shall live by them." Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed [is] everyone who hangs on a tree"), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. (Gal 3:6-14 NKJV)

"I hope to come to you soon, but I am writing these instructions to you so that, if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth."

1Timothy 3:14-15 (Notice the Bible states that the church is the pillar of truth)

It is the Church which has the truth of the teaching of Christ. The Church is His Body (Ephesians 5:23) and so it must be truth, as He is truth. The teaching of His Church is infallible, as He is infallible.

#1 In I Timothy 3:14-15, how do you know that the phrase "the pillar and bulwark of the truth" was not in reference to the living God and not the church?

#2 Christ is infallible, certainly. You will find nowhere in Scripture where it is stated that the church is infallible. If you can do so, I will be in awe of you

GOD has always spoken to His people through a father figure,

be it Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Peter (John 21:15-17, Acts 15:7), and others. Since it is a known fact that GOD never changes (Malachi 3:6, Hebrews 13:8, James 1:17), He is the same today as He was in the time of those Biblical figures.

I'm with you here so far (except it could be argued that while God in His nature does not change, this doesn't mean His ways do not...but that's a whole other topic ).

He speaks to His Church through the present day "Peter", the successor to the Biblical Peter, today's Bishop of Rome.

You lost me right here. Scriptural support please? Specifically:

A) Please explain how we all (believers in Christ) went from being His church, His Body...now to Peter being the only significant figure.

B) Please explain how Peter has any significance over me or any other believer.

C) Please explain how the Bishop of Rome has any significance over me or any other believer.

D) Please provide scripture (in context) to show where we are told that Peter or any of his "successors" are infallible.

He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

Luke 10:16

This is but one of the promises of authority which Jesus Christ gave to His Apostles.

Can you see the deeper meaning of the first six words of Luke 10:16?

The deeper teaching reads like this, 'He who hears me through your mouth will never hear anything but the absolute truth'. It has the meaning of that, 'through His Church the Apostles and their descendants will be prevented by GOD Himself from teaching anything other than the absolute truth'

This isn't called "deeper teaching", this is called reading into things. Also known as basing doctrine on presumption. It could also be known as "false teaching". Very dangerous.

Down through almost two-thousand years of recorded history of the Church which Jesus Christ founded, and with a succession of two hundred sixty three Bishops of Rome (Popes), not one Pope has ever taught error from the Chair of Peter on the matter of faith and morals, and all of this in spite of a handful of 'less than holy' popes (remember, Jesus Himself chose one 'less than holy' Apostle, by the name of Judas).

So you are asserting the Pope is infallible? Oi....