Doctrine

[Guest shiloh357]

Yet People have Churches built on doctrines of Baptism, Pre-destination, Legalism, Formalism, Gifts, Eschatology, Trintiy, Racism, Culture, Communion, Tradition, etc...

The truth is we have used doctrine as weapon to hurt and divide others. Church doctrine has done more harm then good. What should be important is our faith and belief in the Son of the Living God. It is by this that we have fellowship with one another. Our faith should not be in words of mans teaching but in the saving power of God.

Most of what you listed is not doctrinal. Legalism is not doctrine, racism is not doctrine; neither is culture, tradition, or formalism.

Doctrine is essential to Christian living in that it keeps us from falling into deception. Doctrine refers to teachings on Soteriology (doctrine of salvation), Hamartiology, (doctrine of sin), Angelology (Doctrine of angels), as well as others such as Christology, Eschatology, Demonology, etc.

Doctrine is foundational. It may not speak to practical living per se, but understanding what the Bible has to say about these things will save a person much woe in days to come.

For example: A clear understanding of what the Bible says about angels, would help keep many people out of the current New Age cult of angel worship, and praying to one's guardian angel. There are some people (Christians even), who do not have a firm doctrinal understanding of angels and thus fall for lies the enemy has sown regarding angels.

Another example: The Jehovah's Witnesses teach that there is no Hell, and that Jesus was not God on earth. Their largest number of converts come from mainline denominations. Now, if they can suck Christian people into their cult with such obvious lies, what does that say about the state of doctrinal knowledge in the Church?

Classes on Doctrine, basic theology and hermeneutics should be conducted in churches all over the US and everywhere else. Christians need to be grounded in the fundamentals of the Christian faith, if we are going to preserve our numbers from falling into cults.

People keep saying that we need unity in the Church. Unity around what? Being "unified around Jesus" is waaaay too ambiguous, and still leaves too much room for interpretation as to exactly what that entails. Unity at the expense of what doctrines? True unity in the Christian faith must occur around the TRUTH, and not some ambiguous concept.

If we do not contend for proper and essential doctrine, if we are not watchdogs for the obvious false teachings that are out there, who knows what will creep in and corrupt even more believers? Obviously we are not always going to agree on the finer points of end time events, the gifts of the Spirit, or dates of certain biblical events, but there are some things that MUST be agreed upon. I think that should go without saying.

[His son]

Yes Biblical Dactrine is the only one that has value.

Isa 28:9-11

9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

(KJV)

Isa 28:13-14

13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

14 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.

(KJV)

Prov 3:5-7

5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

(KJV)

Read The Bible, Let The Holy Spirit be your interpreter. I all Christians were doing this there would not be so many denominations, man made doctrines, cults, and other divisions in the church. Then the world would know we are Christians.

[Jedi4Yahweh]

Yet People have Churches built on doctrines of Baptism, Pre-destination, Legalism, Formalism, Gifts, Eschatology, Trintiy, Racism, Culture, Communion, Tradition, etc...

The truth is we have used doctrine as weapon to hurt and divide others. Church doctrine has done more harm then good. What should be important is our faith and belief in the Son of the Living God. It is by this that we have fellowship with one another. Our faith should not be in words of mans teaching but in the saving power of God.

Most of what you listed is not doctrinal. Legalism is not doctrine, racism is not doctrine; neither is culture, tradition, or formalism.

Doctrine is essential to Christian living in that it keeps us from falling into deception. Doctrine refers to teachings on Soteriology (doctrine of salvation), Hamartiology, (doctrine of sin), Angelology (Doctrine of angels), as well as others such as Christology, Eschatology, Demonology, etc.

Doctrine is foundational. It may not speak to practical living per se, but understanding what the Bible has to say about these things will save a person much woe in days to come.

For example: A clear understanding of what the Bible says about angels, would help keep many people out of the current New Age cult of angel worship, and praying to one's guardian angel. There are some people (Christians even), who do not have a firm doctrinal understanding of angels and thus fall for lies the enemy has sown regarding angels.

Another example: The Jehovah's Witnesses teach that there is no Hell, and that Jesus was not God on earth. Their largest number of converts come from mainline denominations. Now, if they can suck Christian people into their cult with such obvious lies, what does that say about the state of doctrinal knowledge in the Church?

Classes on Doctrine, basic theology and hermeneutics should be conducted in churches all over the US and everywhere else. Christians need to be grounded in the fundamentals of the Christian faith, if we are going to preserve our numbers from falling into cults.

People keep saying that we need unity in the Church. Unity around what? Being "unified around Jesus" is waaaay too ambiguous, and still leaves too much room for interpretation as to exactly what that entails. Unity at the expense of what doctrines? True unity in the Christian faith must occur around the TRUTH, and not some ambiguous concept.

If we do not contend for proper and essential doctrine, if we are not watchdogs for the obvious false teachings that are out there, who knows what will creep in and corrupt even more believers? Obviously we are not always going to agree on the finer points of end time events, the gifts of the Spirit, or dates of certain biblical events, but there are some things that MUST be agreed upon. I think that should go without saying.

Yes Christianity revolves one truth: That Jesus is the Son of the Living God

This is the foundation of Christianity all the other stuff should not divide and segment the body of Christ but it has.

[Khristeeanos]

I think that doctrine is very important, but to put more emphasis on doctrine (and especially attempting to "convert" a Christian to your theology/doctrine) is dangerous.

Jesus said we would be known by our "LOVE" for another, yet we call each other heretics and condemn each other to hell.

+ + + + +

How it must break our Lord's heart.

[Jedi4Yahweh]

I think that doctrine is very important, but to put more emphasis on doctrine (and especially attempting to "convert" a Christian to your theology/doctrine) is dangerous.

Jesus said we would be known by our "LOVE" for another, yet we call each other heretics and condemn each other to hell.

+ + + + +

How it must break our Lord's heart.

Amen....does these remind you of what Jesus said will happen in the last days talking about Christians:

The love of many will grow cold and Christians will betray each other.

Mat 24:9-13 NASB "Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. (10) "At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. (11) "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. (12) "Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold. (13) "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

God bless,

[Scudbuddy]

I think that doctrine is very important, but to put more emphasis on doctrine (and especially attempting to "convert" a Christian to your theology/doctrine) is dangerous.

Jesus said we would be known by our "LOVE" for another, yet we call each other heretics and condemn each other to hell.

+ + + + +

How it must break our Lord's heart.

Amen....does these remind you of what Jesus said that in the last days talking about Christians:

The love of many will grow cold and Christians will betray each other.

Mat 24:9-13 NASB "Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. (10) "At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. (11) "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. (12) "Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold. (13) "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

God bless,

The only thing that verse didn't mention is how many "brothers" would do it for money. The number of books written that have made men like Hunt and Hannegraf hundereds of thousands of dollars has been mind-blowing. All of them have been written by those who hate anything supernatural in someone elses ministry. The bad part is that sometimes they get it right, but then go on to condemn good men as Occultist and False Prophets. All without ever practicing Matthew 18 which calls on the church to practice a formula to confront sin and problems in the church.

1.Private confrontation

2.Confrontation with elders and other leadership present

3.Brought before the church and confronted. If still no change, then excommunication. But never is there allowed an airing before the world of our dirty laundry. Never. This has shamed the church before the world about subjects they have no understanding about. And it was done for money.

[Guest shiloh357]

The only thing that verse didn't mention is how many "brothers" would do it for money. The number of books written that have made men like Hunt and Hannegraf hundereds of thousands of dollars has been mind-blowing. All of them have been written by those who hate anything supernatural in someone elses ministry. The bad part is that sometimes they get it right, but then go on to condemn good men as Occultist and False Prophets. All without ever practicing Matthew 18 which calls on the church to practice a formula to confront sin and problems in the church.

Hunt and Hanegraff do not write books on doctrine to my knowledge. They write books about cults and the misuse of the supernatural. I am not a big fan of Hanegraff, to sure. I feel that he has a bit of a chip on his shoulder. Furthermore, he is not a theologin. He has a bachelor's in engineering.

At any rate. My town is the headquarters for the Assemblies of God, and there are plenty of books about doctrine written by men who still believe in the supernatural. I don't remember their names off the top of my head, but one of the country's finest theologins is Dr. Horton who is the AOG's top Hebrew scholar and has written commentaries on Acts, and on Bible doctrine.

Many books about doctrine were were written years before the current Pentecostal movement came into being. That would explain why they don't address that issue as much.

I am Southern Baptist. I have yet to hear a sermon condemning the genuine supernatural moving of God. There have been people miraculously healed who were members of my church, and reports from missionaries of the supernatural occuring in the field.

What we do condemn is those who attempt to promote themselves through the supernatural. Benny Hinn, and co. are very good examples of those who have thrown doctrine out the window in preference to sensationalism.

[Jedi4Yahweh]

The only thing that verse didn't mention is how many "brothers" would do it for money. The number of books written that have made men like Hunt and Hannegraf hundereds of thousands of dollars has been mind-blowing. All of them have been written by those who hate anything supernatural in someone elses ministry. The bad part is that sometimes they get it right, but then go on to condemn good men as Occultist and False Prophets. All without ever practicing Matthew 18 which calls on the church to practice a formula to confront sin and problems in the church.

1.Private confrontation

2.Confrontation with elders and other leadership present

3.Brought before the church and confronted. If still no change, then excommunication. But never is there allowed an airing before the world of our dirty laundry. Never. This has shamed the church before the world about subjects they have no understanding about. And it was done for money.

Yeah I totally agree. They make money off condemning others.

[Scudbuddy]

The only thing that verse didn't mention is how many "brothers" would do it for money. The number of books written that have made men like Hunt and Hannegraf hundereds of thousands of dollars has been mind-blowing. All of them have been written by those who hate anything supernatural in someone elses ministry. The bad part is that sometimes they get it right, but then go on to condemn good men as Occultist and False Prophets. All without ever practicing Matthew 18 which calls on the church to practice a formula to confront sin and problems in the church.

Hunt and Hanegraff do not write books on doctrine to my knowledge. They write books about cults and the misuse of the supernatural. I am not a big fan of Hanegraff, to sure. I feel that he has a bit of a chip on his shoulder. Furthermore, he is not a theologin. He has a bachelor's in engineering.

At any rate. My town is the headquarters for the Assemblies of God, and there are plenty of books about doctrine written by men who still believe in the supernatural. I don't remember their names off the top of my head, but one of the country's finest theologins is Dr. Horton who is the AOG's top Hebrew scholar and has written commentaries on Acts, and on Bible doctrine.

Many books about doctrine were were written years before the current Pentecostal movement came into being. That would explain why they don't address that issue as much.

I am Southern Baptist. I have yet to hear a sermon condemning the genuine supernatural moving of God. There have been people miraculously healed who were members of my church, and reports from missionaries of the supernatural occuring in the field.

What we do condemn is those who attempt to promote themselves through the supernatural. Benny Hinn, and co. are very good examples of those who have thrown doctrine out the window in preference to sensationalism.

Their job description is about cults, but they consistently tie it into "proper" doctrine and the charismatic churches. They use the word Doctrine consistently in their critique of other ministries.They also are very critical of anyone who even associates with anyone on their list of churches and leaders who are "Occultic." As bad as Hunt is, Hannegraf is even worse. Hannegraf plagarized Dr. James Kennedy's Evangelism Explosion book, and then had the gall to later denounce Kennedys book about how the constellations confirm the word.

And if you read "Counterfeit Revival" or "Christianity in Crisis", you would see a consistent critique of different groups doctrine. Look in index under "False doctrine" and find out just how much time Hank takes on that subject just in the index alone. He actually tackles it more, but these are the pages where "False Doctrine" as a term is used. And it is all aimed at anyone that sees anything supernatural in their ministry.

If you listen to Hanks radio program, you will hear it all day long. Dr. Walter Martins widow has been very critical about this. She has stated publically in the LA Times that Hank has turned her husbands ministry into a heresy hunting ministry in the church.

But the best part is that Hanks fellow heresy hunters are recognizing Hanks incredible credibility problems and are openly biting his ankles. He is tasting his own medicine, and is finding it is foul tasting. (And some of their critique is as unfair to Hank as his is to good ministries. Life is good at that. You reap what you sow. He developed the techniques to tear down, and now they are legitimate techniques in these others ministries, and are being used on him. If they had stayed to the words command on how to handle doctrinal, sin, and other miscellaneous problems, he would not be under the same fire.)

[Guest shiloh357]

Believe me, I am no fan of Hanegraff. I managed to get into an e-mail correspondence with one of his former staff members who used to help produce the Bible Answer Man broadcast, so I know he is hot water on several fronts.

My point was, standing for proper doctrine does not mean that one should/or will negate the supernatural movement of the Holy Spirit. I believe in tounges, the gift of prophecy, word of knowledge, etc. However God wants to move in His body is surely fine with me. I want to see more of that!!

Emphasis on doctrine keeps Christians from falling into cults and allows to be unified around Christ, properly. I cannot sacrifice proper, biblical doctrine for the sake of "unity." The minute someone tells you that holding to your convictions is somehow detrimental to the unity of believers, that should send up a red flag. The minute you are told to check your doctrine at the door, you need to run the other way.