Women Pastors

[apothanein kerdos]

Also, are the above responces really needed or helpful? Telling someone, "Oh, you take them on".

Let's show some maturity.

SJ

I think this was out of respect. Most of us know that Called is one who has great wisdom and those of us who have known Deb know that she is very eloquent and is able to answer better than we are able at the moment. It was a very honorable gesture.

From seeing how KMB and Called have treated Tess in the past, I saw it as a set up.

[apothanein kerdos]

Lets not. I think it was more the tone, but we all understand most of us have strong beliefs on this subject so lets all play nice.

You avoided the question. Name one time that God has gone against His Word. The fact is that He hasn't. Not once do we see Him doing this. Thus, how can we justifiably say that God calls women to a position of authority when His Word speaks out against it?

I could also care less about this issue and hold no strong beliefs on it. It's a clear cut issue as far as I'm concerned so I haven't spent too much time wondering about it. When I post though I get to the point and don't use anything to soften it. What I say is what I mean with no emotions involved.

[Orr v'emet]

Also, are the above responces really needed or helpful? Telling someone, "Oh, you take them on".

Let's show some maturity.

SJ

I think this was out of respect. Most of us know that Called is one who has great wisdom and those of us who have known Deb know that she is very eloquent and is able to answer better than we are able at the moment. It was a very honorable gesture.

From seeing how KMB and Called have treated Tess in the past, I saw it as a set up.

No set up SJ. Just wanting Deb to respond to Tess' questions from scripture as requested, she has more knowledge in this area than I, I have learned alot from her :il: .

And, I might add that Tess is quite capable of holding her own!

[Guest Called]

Hey Tess, what's up?

I hope that maybe I can give you a little of my perspective here. You probably saw that my husbands grandmother is a pastor. Now, when I first met my husband, I was appalled that there was a female pastor! I couldn't believe it, but I decided to try and found out about it and see what God says. I agree that we need to go with what the Bible says. I believe we need to take the Bible as a whole and weigh it. Not just pick a few verses here and there, I am not saying you are, just clarifying for the sake of discussion.

First, you asked for scriptural references of women who were placed in a place of authority... I will give three, there are probably more, but I am at work and so I have limited resources and time. Sorry!

1) Deborah (like that name! HA! )- We see the story of Deborah in Judges 4 and 5. I will not go over the story, you can read it for yourself.

2) Esther

3)Priscilla- her leadership can be seen throughout Paul's epistle's.

I am going to only have time right now to comment on two of the scriptures you mentioned, because I am at work and it is about my lunch time, so I can't get everyone off schedule! Anyway....

You mentioned 1 Corninthians 14:34-35. I always wondered about this verse and then I did a little research on it and I was interested to find that Paul was talking about the church in Corinth specifically. They were having a serious problem with prostitution and the prostitutes would come in to the church and start trying to lead the men astray. Therefore Paul was trying to nip this problem in the bud. It wasn't a blanket statement. He was addressing the particular problem that church was having.

1 Timothy 2:11-15

"A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint."

What I find interesting in this verse is the word "I". Paul says that he doesn't allow women to teach over a man. This isn't a command, it is Paul telling us how he ran the church. Now, if he said, do not allow women..that would be an entirely different matter.

I promise I will try to address the other points you mentioned when I get back from lunch!

God Bless,

Debbie

[apothanein kerdos]

Also, are the above responces really needed or helpful? Telling someone, "Oh, you take them on".

Let's show some maturity.

SJ

I think this was out of respect. Most of us know that Called is one who has great wisdom and those of us who have known Deb know that she is very eloquent and is able to answer better than we are able at the moment. It was a very honorable gesture.

From seeing how KMB and Called have treated Tess in the past, I saw it as a set up.

No set up SJ. Just wanting Deb to respond to Tess' questions from scripture as requested, she has more knowledge in this area than I, I have learned alot from her :il: .

And, I might add that Tess is quite capable of holding her own!

I know she is, but as someone who is close to her I'm naturally going to defend her. Likewise, I'm also interjecting my opinion (with scripture) into this topic....which will go ignored

[sachi]

(ie. being a missionary, teaching, etc) is NOT a position of authority.

A missionary is not the same as a pastor, they are two very different roles. See my reference to the word "overseer" above.

Well, I guess there are a lot of women who violated the Scriptures then :x: - out there in different countries, sent out by Baptist, Nazarene, Pentecostal, Presbyterian and other missions - who baptized in the name of Jesus, build churches, forged inroads through alien territories for the Lord . . .

I myself was a missionary to a foreign land.

My father, Baptist minister - of a very well known Baptist Convention in NorthAmerica - had a steady stream of missionaries ministering in our churches, many of them women who were doing cutting edge work in the places of their calling -[/i]

Those churches they raised up are now being led by indigenous male pastors-

But praise God, these women were obedient . . .

Some of them actually related the 'conflict' they had re: th eresponsibilities they had to take on, which they thoought were delegated to 'men' only.

But they did it -

God is not prescriptive in His work.

Edited September 22, 2004 by sachi

[Guest Called]

Also, are the above responces really needed or helpful? Telling someone, "Oh, you take them on".

Let's show some maturity.

SJ

I think this was out of respect. Most of us know that Called is one who has great wisdom and those of us who have known Deb know that she is very eloquent and is able to answer better than we are able at the moment. It was a very honorable gesture.

Thanks, but trust me...it ain't me! It is God...I can't even spell! HA!

[sachi]

You mentioned 1 Corninthians 14:34-35. I always wondered about this verse and then I did a little research on it and I was interested to find that Paul was talking about the church in Corinth specifically. They were having a serious problem with prostitution and the prostitutes would come in to the church and start trying to lead the men astray. Therefore Paul was trying to nip this problem in the bud. It wasn't a blanket statement. He was addressing the particular problem that church was having

YES! TOTALLY.

So much of the teaching @ that refers to the cultural context of Paul's day.

We need to read the "SPIRIT" of the teaching:that there is to be order and hierarchy and obedience to leadership . . . as well as ACCOUNTABILITY in leadersip.

[Ovedya]

I believe that regardless of title, responsibility, or office, the point at which a man is instructed by woman in the Word of God is the point at which there is a contradiction with the Word and the order which God has ordained for His people. It's not a matter of a man being superior to the woman. It is simply a matter of preserving the order which God has ordained

[Work in Progress]

Well said,GMan. ITA.