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What is True Forgiveness?


stacey c

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I wasn't sure to post this here or in the Advice forum, but since I wanted to talk about forgiveness I thought here was appropriate, if not please move where it needs to be.

This is a personal expierience and I won't go into the graphic details, I had posted about the expierience in the Ladies forum about a year ago.

Well I have been struggling with forgiveness with someone in my family for over a year now. About a week ago I excepted him om my Face Book, but I told him I wanted him to take a lie detector test, which he agreed to. The problem is I wouldn't even trust the results if it showed he didn't do what he was accused of, if any one could fool a lie detector he could, as far as I know he's tricked them before.

Now here's the question, is it real forgiveness if I ask him to take this test? Or should I just let it all go? I will never allow him near my children again and I have no desire to see him face to face. But I need anothers opinion on this, do you see this being beneficial for my( spiritual growth ( the test) or is just totally letting it go the only way for spiritual health?

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I wasn't sure to post this here or in the Advice forum, but since I wanted to talk about forgiveness I thought here was appropriate, if not please move where it needs to be.

This is a personal expierience and I won't go into the graphic details, I had posted about the expierience in the Ladies forum about a year ago.

Well I have been struggling with forgiveness with someone in my family for over a year now. About a week ago I excepted him om my Face Book, but I told him I wanted him to take a lie detector test, which he agreed to. The problem is I wouldn't even trust the results if it showed he didn't do what he was accused of, if any one could fool a lie detector he could, as far as I know he's tricked them before.

Now here's the question, is it real forgiveness if I ask him to take this test? Or should I just let it all go? I will never allow him near my children again and I have no desire to see him face to face. But I need anothers opinion on this, do you see this being beneficial for my( spiritual growth ( the test) or is just totally letting it go the only way for spiritual health?

Forgiving someone does not mean trusting someone.

You should forgive, but you should not trust anyone whom your judgment tells you is not trustworthy.

Forgiveness does not mean you have to associate with them, like them, include them in your life or friends, etc.

Your responsibility is to protect your children with the wisdom and best judgment you have.

Trust your instincts as a mother. Take everything to God. Ask him to show you what he would have you do when you are not certain.

Pray for his provision, guidance and governance in all these circumstances when they come up, and then step out and do what you need to do as a mother.

I will pray for you.

In the love of Christ,

Eleanor

I agree with Eleanor look on this and her recommended steps to feel safe, however, I would add that you might consider telling this person why you are taking these steps. Trust...must be earned! But I would also ask if you are letting fear control your actions? I noted the word "accused" in your post. Christ was accused of being many things, I was accused of being a "baby killer" and many other things. Being accused does not mean you are guilty...but not being guilty doesn't mean that you should just toss out your God given "trust" to him either.

If this member of your family loves you, I'm sure that he will work with you as you explain your concerns to him.

As far as him being able to beat a lie detector, as a former ASA Agent {Army Security Agency} , I do not think so, the reason why lie detectors are not allowed in court has more to do with "false positive readings" then people beating the thing.

Now on to Forgiveness:

Christ taught that forgiveness is a duty. No limit can be set to the extent of forgiveness (Luk_17:4) and it must be granted without reserve. Jesus will not admit that there is any wrong so gross nor so often repeated that it is beyond forgiveness. To Him an unforgiving spirit is also a sins.

There are Conditions of Forgiveness>>>>

Jesus recognized that there are conditions to be fulfilled before forgiveness can be granted. Forgiveness is part of a mutual relationship; the other part is the repentance of the offender. God does not forgive without repentance, nor is it required of man.

The effect of forgiveness is to restore the state of the relationship back to which it was before it was broken by sin. Such a restoration requires the cooperation of both parties, and a rebuilding of trust that was also broken by that sin.

There must be both a granting and an acceptance of the forgiveness.

Sincere, deep-felt sorrow for the wrong which works repentance (2Co_7:10) is the condition of mind which insures the acceptance of the forgiveness. Hence, Jesus commands forgiveness when the offender turns again, saying, “I repent” (Luk_17:3, Luk_17:1). It was this state of mind which led the father joyfully to welcome the Prodigal before he even gave utterance to his newly formed purpose (Luk_15:21).

However, for the The Offended Party.

It is not to be supposed, however, that failure to repent upon the part of the offender releases the offended from all obligation to extend forgiveness. Without the repentance of the one who has wronged him he can have a forgiving state of mind. This Jesus requires, as is implied by, “if ye forgive not every one his brother from your hearts” (Mat_18:35). It is also implied by the past tense in the Lord's Prayer: “as we also have forgiven our debtors” (Mat_6:12). It is this forgiving spirit which conditions God's forgiveness of our sins (Mar_11:25; Mat_6:14, Mat_6:15). In such a case the unforgiving spirit is essentially un-repentance (Mat_18:23-35). “Of all acts, is not, for a man, repentance the most Divine?”

The offended is to go even farther and is to seek to bring the wrongdoer to repentance. This is the purpose of the reprimand commanded in Luk_17:3. More explicitly Jesus says, “If thy brother sin against thee, go, show him his fault between thee and him alone” (Mat_18:15-17). He is to carry his pursuit to the point of making every reasonable effort to win the wrongdoer, and only when he has exhausted every effort may he abandon it. The object is the gaining of his brother. Only when this is evidently unattainable is all effort to cease.

In the mean time Pray, the God will give you the answers you require, and for the member of the family to be open to your needs as well as others.

ICL

Dennis.

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I wasn't sure to post this here or in the Advice forum, but since I wanted to talk about forgiveness I thought here was appropriate, if not please move where it needs to be.

This is a personal expierience and I won't go into the graphic details, I had posted about the expierience in the Ladies forum about a year ago.

Well I have been struggling with forgiveness with someone in my family for over a year now. About a week ago I excepted him om my Face Book, but I told him I wanted him to take a lie detector test, which he agreed to. The problem is I wouldn't even trust the results if it showed he didn't do what he was accused of, if any one could fool a lie detector he could, as far as I know he's tricked them before.

Now here's the question, is it real forgiveness if I ask him to take this test? Or should I just let it all go? I will never allow him near my children again and I have no desire to see him face to face. But I need anothers opinion on this, do you see this being beneficial for my( spiritual growth ( the test) or is just totally letting it go the only way for spiritual health?

Forgiving someone does not mean trusting someone.

You should forgive, but you should not trust anyone whom your judgment tells you is not trustworthy.

Forgiveness does not mean you have to associate with them, like them, include them in your life or friends, etc.

Your responsibility is to protect your children with the wisdom and best judgment you have.

Trust your instincts as a mother. Take everything to God. Ask him to show you what he would have you do when you are not certain.

Pray for his provision, guidance and governance in all these circumstances when they come up, and then step out and do what you need to do as a mother.

I will pray for you.

In the love of Christ,

Eleanor

I agree with Eleanor look on this and her recommended steps to feel safe, however, I would add that you might consider telling this person why you are taking these steps. Trust...must be earned! But I would also ask if you are letting fear control your actions? I noted the word "accused" in your post. Christ was accused of being many things, I was accused of being a "baby killer" and many other things. Being accused does not mean you are guilty...but not being guilty doesn't mean that you should just toss out your God given "trust" to him either.

If this member of your family loves you, I'm sure that he will work with you as you explain your concerns to him.

As far as him being able to beat a lie detector, as a former ASA Agent {Army Security Agency} , I do not think so, the reason why lie detectors are not allowed in court has more to do with "false positive readings" then people beating the thing.

Now on to Forgiveness:

Christ taught that forgiveness is a duty. No limit can be set to the extent of forgiveness (Luk_17:4) and it must be granted without reserve. Jesus will not admit that there is any wrong so gross nor so often repeated that it is beyond forgiveness. To Him an unforgiving spirit is also a sins.

There are Conditions of Forgiveness>>>>

Jesus recognized that there are conditions to be fulfilled before forgiveness can be granted. Forgiveness is part of a mutual relationship; the other part is the repentance of the offender. God does not forgive without repentance, nor is it required of man.

The effect of forgiveness is to restore the state of the relationship back to which it was before it was broken by sin. Such a restoration requires the cooperation of both parties, and a rebuilding of trust that was also broken by that sin.

There must be both a granting and an acceptance of the forgiveness.

Sincere, deep-felt sorrow for the wrong which works repentance (2Co_7:10) is the condition of mind which insures the acceptance of the forgiveness. Hence, Jesus commands forgiveness when the offender turns again, saying, “I repent” (Luk_17:3, Luk_17:1). It was this state of mind which led the father joyfully to welcome the Prodigal before he even gave utterance to his newly formed purpose (Luk_15:21).

However, for the The Offended Party.

It is not to be supposed, however, that failure to repent upon the part of the offender releases the offended from all obligation to extend forgiveness. Without the repentance of the one who has wronged him he can have a forgiving state of mind. This Jesus requires, as is implied by, “if ye forgive not every one his brother from your hearts” (Mat_18:35). It is also implied by the past tense in the Lord's Prayer: “as we also have forgiven our debtors” (Mat_6:12). It is this forgiving spirit which conditions God's forgiveness of our sins (Mar_11:25; Mat_6:14, Mat_6:15). In such a case the unforgiving spirit is essentially un-repentance (Mat_18:23-35). “Of all acts, is not, for a man, repentance the most Divine?”

The offended is to go even farther and is to seek to bring the wrongdoer to repentance. This is the purpose of the reprimand commanded in Luk_17:3. More explicitly Jesus says, “If thy brother sin against thee, go, show him his fault between thee and him alone” (Mat_18:15-17). He is to carry his pursuit to the point of making every reasonable effort to win the wrongdoer, and only when he has exhausted every effort may he abandon it. The object is the gaining of his brother. Only when this is evidently unattainable is all effort to cease.

In the mean time Pray, the God will give you the answers you require, and for the member of the family to be open to your needs as well as others.

ICL

Dennis.

Thank you for your responses.

First of all, there is no question that the trust is gone, and the protection of my children is first and foremost!

My main concern was whether asking for the lie detector was a hinderance for me to walk in full forgiveness, or if it was seen as a condition for it. Dennis you really answered my question on that and I thank you, the hardest part will be if I can walk it through and let it all go. This the hardest thing I have ever had to go through and the anger and shock has lessened over time, but I do feel a big ball of bitterness and resentment in my gut, and that is what I don't know if I can let go, and believe me I am trying or I would never have even asked for advise. :emot-hug:

Blessings stacey c

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I wasn't sure to post this here or in the Advice forum, but since I wanted to talk about forgiveness I thought here was appropriate, if not please move where it needs to be.

This is a personal expierience and I won't go into the graphic details, I had posted about the expierience in the Ladies forum about a year ago.

Well I have been struggling with forgiveness with someone in my family for over a year now. About a week ago I excepted him om my Face Book, but I told him I wanted him to take a lie detector test, which he agreed to. The problem is I wouldn't even trust the results if it showed he didn't do what he was accused of, if any one could fool a lie detector he could, as far as I know he's tricked them before.

Now here's the question, is it real forgiveness if I ask him to take this test? Or should I just let it all go? I will never allow him near my children again and I have no desire to see him face to face. But I need anothers opinion on this, do you see this being beneficial for my( spiritual growth ( the test) or is just totally letting it go the only way for spiritual health?

Forgiving someone does not mean trusting someone.

You should forgive, but you should not trust anyone whom your judgment tells you is not trustworthy.

Forgiveness does not mean you have to associate with them, like them, include them in your life or friends, etc.

Your responsibility is to protect your children with the wisdom and best judgment you have.

Trust your instincts as a mother. Take everything to God. Ask him to show you what he would have you do when you are not certain.

Pray for his provision, guidance and governance in all these circumstances when they come up, and then step out and do what you need to do as a mother.

I will pray for you.

In the love of Christ,

Eleanor

I agree with Eleanor look on this and her recommended steps to feel safe, however, I would add that you might consider telling this person why you are taking these steps. Trust...must be earned! But I would also ask if you are letting fear control your actions? I noted the word "accused" in your post. Christ was accused of being many things, I was accused of being a "baby killer" and many other things. Being accused does not mean you are guilty...but not being guilty doesn't mean that you should just toss out your God given "trust" to him either.

If this member of your family loves you, I'm sure that he will work with you as you explain your concerns to him.

As far as him being able to beat a lie detector, as a former ASA Agent {Army Security Agency} , I do not think so, the reason why lie detectors are not allowed in court has more to do with "false positive readings" then people beating the thing.

Now on to Forgiveness:

Christ taught that forgiveness is a duty. No limit can be set to the extent of forgiveness (Luk_17:4) and it must be granted without reserve. Jesus will not admit that there is any wrong so gross nor so often repeated that it is beyond forgiveness. To Him an unforgiving spirit is also a sins.

There are Conditions of Forgiveness>>>>

Jesus recognized that there are conditions to be fulfilled before forgiveness can be granted. Forgiveness is part of a mutual relationship; the other part is the repentance of the offender. God does not forgive without repentance, nor is it required of man.

The effect of forgiveness is to restore the state of the relationship back to which it was before it was broken by sin. Such a restoration requires the cooperation of both parties, and a rebuilding of trust that was also broken by that sin.

There must be both a granting and an acceptance of the forgiveness.

Sincere, deep-felt sorrow for the wrong which works repentance (2Co_7:10) is the condition of mind which insures the acceptance of the forgiveness. Hence, Jesus commands forgiveness when the offender turns again, saying, “I repent” (Luk_17:3, Luk_17:1). It was this state of mind which led the father joyfully to welcome the Prodigal before he even gave utterance to his newly formed purpose (Luk_15:21).

However, for the The Offended Party.

It is not to be supposed, however, that failure to repent upon the part of the offender releases the offended from all obligation to extend forgiveness. Without the repentance of the one who has wronged him he can have a forgiving state of mind. This Jesus requires, as is implied by, “if ye forgive not every one his brother from your hearts” (Mat_18:35). It is also implied by the past tense in the Lord's Prayer: “as we also have forgiven our debtors” (Mat_6:12). It is this forgiving spirit which conditions God's forgiveness of our sins (Mar_11:25; Mat_6:14, Mat_6:15). In such a case the unforgiving spirit is essentially un-repentance (Mat_18:23-35). “Of all acts, is not, for a man, repentance the most Divine?”

The offended is to go even farther and is to seek to bring the wrongdoer to repentance. This is the purpose of the reprimand commanded in Luk_17:3. More explicitly Jesus says, “If thy brother sin against thee, go, show him his fault between thee and him alone” (Mat_18:15-17). He is to carry his pursuit to the point of making every reasonable effort to win the wrongdoer, and only when he has exhausted every effort may he abandon it. The object is the gaining of his brother. Only when this is evidently unattainable is all effort to cease.

In the mean time Pray, the God will give you the answers you require, and for the member of the family to be open to your needs as well as others.

ICL

Dennis.

Thank you for your responses.

First of all, there is no question that the trust is gone, and the protection of my children is first and foremost!

My main concern was whether asking for the lie detector was a hinderance for me to walk in full forgiveness, or if it was seen as a condition for it. Dennis you really answered my question on that and I thank you, the hardest part will be if I can walk it through and let it all go. This the hardest thing I have ever had to go through and the anger and shock has lessened over time, but I do feel a big ball of bitterness and resentment in my gut, and that is what I don't know if I can let go, and believe me I am trying or I would never have even asked for advise. :emot-hug:

Blessings stacey c

I think you have answered your own question ... "Trust is gone" ... you've already said that the results of a lie detector test would not totally convince you - you have bitterness, anger, shock ... IMO - drop this "Friend" from FB and concentrate on forgiveness of yourself and of this person who betrayed your trust. I would put this person out of my life and away - I have a wonderful gift from God - I can forgive and ... forget. I move on and try not to allow a repeat performance of this hurt from anyone else... I think Eleanor's response was on track... Blessings...:)

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Stacy

You really need to forgive him for your own sake.

it is robbing you of your happiness that you deserve and when you forgive it has no more power over your life. Im not saying it will be easy in fact might be one of the hardest thing to do. But forgiving dosnt mean you can trust them. I forgave a family member but I cant trust them. And I found out its a process , because sometimes bad thoughts come back to me about this person and I say to myself that I allready forgiven this person and treat that thought as a temptation and put it out of my mind. I hope this helps....your brother in christ...dpb

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I wasn't sure to post this here or in the Advice forum, but since I wanted to talk about forgiveness I thought here was appropriate, if not please move where it needs to be.

This is a personal expierience and I won't go into the graphic details, I had posted about the expierience in the Ladies forum about a year ago.

Well I have been struggling with forgiveness with someone in my family for over a year now. About a week ago I excepted him om my Face Book, but I told him I wanted him to take a lie detector test, which he agreed to. The problem is I wouldn't even trust the results if it showed he didn't do what he was accused of, if any one could fool a lie detector he could, as far as I know he's tricked them before.

Now here's the question, is it real forgiveness if I ask him to take this test? Or should I just let it all go? I will never allow him near my children again and I have no desire to see him face to face. But I need anothers opinion on this, do you see this being beneficial for my( spiritual growth ( the test) or is just totally letting it go the only way for spiritual health?

To forgive- as far as it relates to this situation- is to stop being angry or resentful toward someone. It can also mean granting pardon and excusing from some type of penalty or punishment, but based on the info you're willing to give, it doesn't seem like you're in a position to extend or withhold punishment. I would think it has more to do with anger and resentment.

Can you truly let go of anger and resentment but still not trust someone? I say yes, particularly if the person is not trustworthy. The lie detector test- if it happens- could be a means of restoring trust, though. For what it's worth, the right kind of lie detector test is practically impossible to beat. If it's one of the intense interrogation types with physical/galvanic responses being carefully measured and compared over a wide variety of questions, that's going to be the most reliable method of testing. It is slightly more old-school and comparatively low-tech, but it's the most reliable by a fair margin. There are some other ways of testing that are easier to beat, even if they are more high-tech. For example, there's some brain imaging kinds of tests that can be beaten if you know something about the machine and about the physiology of the brain. But the more conventional lie detector test is something you can have more confidence in. You should look into it before you make a final decision, though. Talk to someone who administers these tests. Make sure s/he knows what s/he's doing- the reliability of the test rests heavily on the test-giver going about it in a certain way, but that way of doing things is well-established and extremely reliable when it's done right. Look into the reasons why it's so reliable. See if you can beat it, then find out why you couldn't. (I'm assuming you can't, and that's always a very safe assumption).

If you look into it a bit more and you're still interested in knowing the truth, you might decide to go for it. It's pretty much impossible for anyone to beat a lie detector test if it's done right. If you're still interested in the idea, you should definitely look into more of the details for yourself and get it straight from an expert who knows why it works and has access to meaningful data, experimentation, and so forth. I'm no expert, but I do know it can be very reliable. That's what you'll find if you look into it more.

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To forgive is to remove the incident from between us, as God did our sins. He tells us that our sins are removed as far as the east is from the west. That is true forgiveness. Everything else is mans forgiveness.

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I wasn't sure to post this here or in the Advice forum, but since I wanted to talk about forgiveness I thought here was appropriate, if not please move where it needs to be.

This is a personal expierience and I won't go into the graphic details, I had posted about the expierience in the Ladies forum about a year ago.

Well I have been struggling with forgiveness with someone in my family for over a year now. About a week ago I excepted him om my Face Book, but I told him I wanted him to take a lie detector test, which he agreed to. The problem is I wouldn't even trust the results if it showed he didn't do what he was accused of, if any one could fool a lie detector he could, as far as I know he's tricked them before.

Now here's the question, is it real forgiveness if I ask him to take this test? Or should I just let it all go? I will never allow him near my children again and I have no desire to see him face to face. But I need anothers opinion on this, do you see this being beneficial for my( spiritual growth ( the test) or is just totally letting it go the only way for spiritual health?

Luke 17:3 If your brother sins,rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.

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Amen Eleanor!

Forgiveness is a choice, not an emotion! Our emotions are like the caboose of a train. Once the engine of choice makes that turn to go in another direction, it takes the caboose time to reach the bend in the track and begin following the engine. We as humans are resistant to change. As was mentioned before, forgiveness is not the same as trust. A wise man foresees danger and flees, so there is no way one should trust the untrustworthy. In fact, trust has to be earned which requires a relationship with such a one and that IMO should be avoided in this particular case as you are the on who has to be responsible for the young ones under your care and charge. As far as the lie detector test... My step brother is a habitual liar and will tell a lie even when the truth will work better. He went into a security guard Co and took their lie detector test and passed with flying colors as he pictured himself riding a motorcycle with the wind in his hair during the questions that he should have failed. They asked him if he did drugs and he said, "never," on the test, but he has done it all and used hard drugs regularly at that time. They hired him and he would walk his beat in some company yard area practicing fast draws with the guns that they gave him while at the same time being as high as a kite. IMO he was just looking for someone to shoot, Yiikes! He bragged about this to me after after...

The temptation is to hate someone who hurts our loved ones, especially when they are innocent and it is very hard to stop that kind of thing in our own strength. Jesus resisted temptation by quoting scripture that he had memorized beforehand. Fill you mind with the Lord's word, like in Josh 1:8 and memorize any verses that seem to apply to your situation when you come across them in your daily devotions in the word as the Holy Spirit wants you to be free of this too and He will make some passages that will be effective for this issue to come alive in your heart and mind. Make yourself like the widow who kept going before the unjust magistrate who kept sending her away, until he said to himself, "even though I care not for the law or the Lord, I will avenge her of her enemy because her continual coming weareth me down." One good thing in this is that it will be easy for you to make your prayers fervent which is important to the Lord. He wants us to want to. Jesus will use his word to cleanse you and to sanctify you and his heart's desire is for you to be free of this evil blot on your happiness and make the peace that passes all understanding to keep your heart and mind in him. The Lord is the God of long-suffering patience and he loves you just as much as he loves Jesus or himself. Recovery after an emotional trauma is so so hard and the Lord knows it and will work with you at your own pace with love, compassion, and mercy. By his stripes you are healed and by his burses you are made whole. Be anxious for nothing but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving(looking to the resolution according to his will) make your requests known to God and the peace that passes all understanding will keep your heart and mind in Christ Jesus. After you are set free the Lord will use you to comfort others with the same comfort that he has given to you! so that all things will work together for the good of them that love the Lord and are called according to his purpose.

Hallowed Father full of love and light, hold Stacey close to your heart and take her eyes off of the hurt and set them onto Jesus revealing to her heart the power of his love and grace as seen in his sacrifice of love. Make your word to be the power of your might to her heart and mind and transform her by renewing her mind into the image of Jesus as you have predestinated her to be. Heal her in Jesus' name. Show her the light at the end of the tunnel even now with the hope of victory that belongs to you. Harkin unto her prayers and give her favor with yourself. Magnify your name in her and bless her with a double portion of your presence to go before her and follow after. Lord use Stacey to minister your Spirit to others, starting with her own family and spreading out from there to those who cross her path. Share your heart with her so that she may love others in response to your love for her. Increase her faith, more and more, that she may walk in the Spirit full of the Holy Spirit and power in Jesus' name.

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I wasn't sure to post this here or in the Advice forum, but since I wanted to talk about forgiveness I thought here was appropriate, if not please move where it needs to be.

This is a personal expierience and I won't go into the graphic details, I had posted about the expierience in the Ladies forum about a year ago.

Well I have been struggling with forgiveness with someone in my family for over a year now. About a week ago I excepted him om my Face Book, but I told him I wanted him to take a lie detector test, which he agreed to. The problem is I wouldn't even trust the results if it showed he didn't do what he was accused of, if any one could fool a lie detector he could, as far as I know he's tricked them before.

Now here's the question, is it real forgiveness if I ask him to take this test? Or should I just let it all go? I will never allow him near my children again and I have no desire to see him face to face. But I need anothers opinion on this, do you see this being beneficial for my( spiritual growth ( the test) or is just totally letting it go the only way for spiritual health?

Forgiving someone does not mean trusting someone.

You should forgive, but you should not trust anyone whom your judgment tells you is not trustworthy.

Forgiveness does not mean you have to associate with them, like them, include them in your life or friends, etc.

Your responsibility is to protect your children with the wisdom and best judgment you have.

Trust your instincts as a mother. Take everything to God. Ask him to show you what he would have you do when you are not certain.

Pray for his provision, guidance and governance in all these circumstances when they come up, and then step out and do what you need to do as a mother.

I will pray for you.

In the love of Christ,

Eleanor

<edit> I would be careful about allowing a predator on my Facebook. They could use it as a source for more victims.

Eleanor said it, forgiving someone is not trusting someone. A few years back my best friend had an affair. She was caught. Her husband forgave her but never again trusted her.

Forgivness is one of the most freeing things you will ever do, but it is also one of the hardest things you will do. It takes time and only through the power of the Holy Spirit is this possible. It may never do anything to the person your forgiving but it will change your life. Stay in God's word, and keep your heart open to God's voice, He will never do anything but tell you the truth.

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