Revelation 6 is still yet in the future.

[Massorite]

Massorite

Your statement above: Angels have no need of a useless bow or a crown. Do the research and you will see it differently.

Ezk 28:11-15 - Your were a model of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. Your were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone adorned you, ruby, topaz, emerald, chrhslite, onyx and jasper, sapphire, turquoise and beryl. Your settings and mountings were made of gold; on the day you were created they were prepared. You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God, you walked among the fiery stones. You were blameless in all your ways, from the day you were created, till wickedness was found in you.

Isa 14:12-14 - How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn. You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations. You said in your heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will raise my throne above the stars of God. I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. I will ascend above the top of the clouds. I will make myself like the Most High.

I did my homework. Satan wants to sit on the throne (he must have a crown to do so).

In Christ

Montana Marv

No you didn't do your home work. The subject of satan and all the bible says about him keeps him seperate from all other angels and the prime reason is that satan is a fallen angel who his gained control over other angels and caused them to fall also. Satan did not NEED all of that blessing that God gave to him according to the visions of Ezekial and God never gave him a bow or a crown according to the verses you have quoted.

Satan will never be seated on the throne and God will never give satan a crown so satan can push God off of the throne. Your grabbing for straws here.

If you had done your homework as I suggested you would find that the word "Crown" (in this verse) represents a reward given to those who had won a race such as in the Greek olympics but can mean a presidential race as well and the verse does not tell us WHO will give the rider a crown. The crown can also represent royalty but in this case satan is not royalty at all and the He in question here is not an angel it is a human man. The word "he" in all of my research tools is listed in general as a human man unless it is stated otherwise and in this case it does not tell us that it is an angel. We should never make assumptions about scripture.

So I say it again. Angels (including satan) are all created beings and have no need of anything at all much less a worthless bow and a worthless crown. That is worthless in the eyes of God. Man holds that which is worthless to God with a high regard.

Look closely at this verse you quoted.

Isa 14:12-14 - How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn. You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations. You said in your heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will raise my throne above the stars of God. I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. I will ascend above the top of the clouds. I will make myself like the Most High.

The words in bold script do not say I will get the throne or put myself on the throne of God. They say "I will make myself LIKE the most High.

[Montana Marv]

Massorite

The closest that Satan will be to being a king will be to sit in the temple which is built during the first half of the 70th Week, and after the A/D is set up.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Massorite]

Massorite

The closest that Satan will be to being a king will be to sit in the temple which is built during the first half of the 70th Week, and after the A/D is set up.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Now that I agree with.

[Massorite]

I question your take on Rev.6:7, the souls under the altar are not in 'Paradise' with Abraham - they are the tribulation saints whose souls are under the altar in heaven and they ask repeatedly 'How long?" before their blood is avenged.

Paradise was taken into heaven when Jesus Christ rose from the dead. There is no longer any Paradise.

Firstly verse 7 does not mention the saints who are under the Alter. They are mentioned in verses 9-11. There is no scripture that tells us that Jesus emptied all of the souls of Paradise out when he ascended into heaven. Not only that but there is nowhere in the bible that tells us that as soon as we die we will go to heaven. If you don't believe me look up for yourself. Get out the Strongs, go to the word "heaven" and read every single verse in the bible that has the word "heaven in it and see if you can find where it tells us that we will go to heaven as soon as we die. It is at this point that people will say "to be absent from the body is to be in the presents of the Lord" and that could not be a more corrupt interpretation of that verse. The corruption comes from not taking the Whole verse into account and leaving out the words "Rather be". Paul is not saying that "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" Paul is telling the Corintian church that HE and whoever is with him are "confident and well pleased" that the believers of the church would RATHER BE absent from the body and Present with the Lord. Which in no way, shape or form says "to be absent from the body is to be in the presents of the Lord" The other quote people make is in Ecc. 12:7 "Then the dust will to the dust as it was and the spirit will return to God who gave it". But that word "SPIRIT" is not talking about the soul, it is talking about the "Breath of Life" that which animates the body. So again we have a corrupt interpretation of this verse also.

The bible says that Jesus took Captivity Captive so if you will look up the word "Captivity or the word Captive" you will find that it is talking about taking control of a thing and in this case it is talking about taking control of death and sin. Before Jesus was sacrificed on the cross death and sin reigned supreme on the earth. But after Jesus death and sin became captive or defeated in Jesus. Besides, If every believer who has already died or will die goes straight to heaven who will still be in the grave for Jesus and the reapers to raise from the grave? I bet that Jesus and the reaper angels will be very surprised to find all of the graves emptied when they come for us. LOL Wouldn't you agree? If Jesus is our example and we are going to be like him then we will first decend down into the lower reaches of the earth until God raises us from the dead just like Jesus.

Now about the souls of those who are under the Alter of God. When I stated that Paradise was under the Alter of God I was making an assumption and I was wrong for doing that because there is no scripture to back up my assumption. What I put as a topic is only a small part of a book I wrote on the book of Revelation during 8 years of research and study on that book alone which if done properly will take you all over the bible. But this is what I say to your question. There is no scriptural proof that the souls that are under the Alter of God came from "THE" great tribulation. The only thing that is said about the cause of their death is that they were killed for the name of Jesus (word of God) and the testamony which they held. In verse 11 it also tells us that those under the Alter of God should "rest for a little while longer until both the number of their fellow servents and there brethern who would be killed as they were, is completed" Did those souls come from great tribulation? Yes they did, but they did not come from "THE GREAT TRIBULATION" because that tribulation period has not taken place yet but I believe that we will see it in our life time.

Last year in 2010 some two hundred fifty thousand Believers died because of the word of God/Jesus and the Testamony which they held. They were burned to death, tortured, hanged, young women had acid thrown into their faces, they were put into jails, school girls had their heads cut off and the list goes on. Did those believers suffer the wrath of God or did they suffer Great Tribulation?

The souls who are under the Alter of God are those who have already died for Christ and those who will die for Christ in the future are those fellow servents who will be killed just as those who are under the Alter have already been killed. There is no scripture that tells us exactly where "under the Alter of God is located" However since there is no scriptural proof that we go to heaven as soon as we die there is no proof that "under the Alter of God is located in heaven iether".

Littlelamb you need to give some scripture to back up what you are saying if you want me to re-think my position on any subject. Because with out scripture it is nothing. Show me some scriptural proof that we go to heaven as soon as we die. Show me some scriptural proof that Paradise is no longer. Or show me some scriptural proof that those under the Alter of God came from "THE" great tribulation.

[panza70]

Yes, Rev. 6 Is still yet in the future. This i believe will take place After the Rapture. Of course, this would depend on your point of view....

[NTMicaiah]

We are told of one of the four horsemen of the Apocalypse having a bow and going forth to conquer. The comments that have been made put me in mind of someone saying that a soldier is going to go out with a gun and be very effective in battle and then having people conclude that we do not know whether he took bullets with him. Could the Bible be using an economy of words here? If John had written everything Jesus did the world could not contain all of the books. God has carefully and selectively given us an abundance of precious things in His word. If God sends forth someone to war, we can be sure that He is able to arm them superbly. I would be inclined to think that this bow indeed will function and launch some powerful missiles unless clear scriptural reasons could be shown to indicate otherwise.

May God be glorified and may we treat one another in a pleasant and dignified way,

NTMicaiah

[panza70]

We are told of one of the four horsemen of the Apocalypse having a bow and going forth to conquer. The comments that have been made put me in mind of someone saying that a soldier is going to go out with a gun and be very effective in battle and then having people conclude that we do not know whether he took bullets with him. Could the Bible be using an economy of words here? If John had written everything Jesus did the world could not contain all of the books. God has carefully and selectively given us an abundance of precious things in His word. If God sends forth someone to war, we can be sure that He is able to arm them superbly. I would be inclined to think that this bow indeed will function and launch some powerful missiles unless clear scriptural reasons could be shown to indicate otherwise.

May God be glorified and may we treat one another in a pleasant and dignified way,

NTMicaiah

Powerful missiles???

[Openly Curious]

Revelation 6:1-8---And I saw the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.--2-- And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went fourth conquering, and to conquer.--3--And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.--4--And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.--5--And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.--6--And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny: and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.--7--And when he had opened the fourth, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.--8--And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.--9--And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: (continued vs. 10-11 as these are they who quieted the Lord's spirit in the north country)

Zechariah 6:1-8---AND I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold, there came four chariots out from between two mountains; and the mountains were mountains of brass.--2--In the first chariot were red horses; and in the second chariot black horses;--3--And in the third chariot white horses: and in the fourth chariot grisled and bay horses.--4--Then I answered and said unto the angel that talked with me, What are these, my lord ?----5---And the angel answered and said unto me, These are the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth.---6---The black horses which are therein go forth into the north country; and the white go forth after them; and the grisled go forth toward the south country.---7---And the bay went forth, and sought to go that they might walk to and fro through the earth: and he said, Get you hence, walk to and fro through the earth. So they walked to and fro through the earth. ---8---Then cried he upon me, and spake unto me, saying, Behold these that go toward the north country have quieted my spirit in the north country.

[NTMicaiah]

The American Heritage Dictionary (I just pulled it off of the shelf) defines missile as, "Any object or weapon that is fired, thrown, dropped, or otherwise projected at a target; projectile." I wasn't meaning to suggest some type of modern, man-made weaponry.

[Massorite]

We are told of one of the four horsemen of the Apocalypse having a bow and going forth to conquer. The comments that have been made put me in mind of someone saying that a soldier is going to go out with a gun and be very effective in battle and then having people conclude that we do not know whether he took bullets with him. Could the Bible be using an economy of words here? If John had written everything Jesus did the world could not contain all of the books. God has carefully and selectively given us an abundance of precious things in His word. If God sends forth someone to war, we can be sure that He is able to arm them superbly. I would be inclined to think that this bow indeed will function and launch some powerful missiles unless clear scriptural reasons could be shown to indicate otherwise.

May God be glorified and may we treat one another in a pleasant and dignified way,

NTMicaiah

No it is not possiple. If Arrows are not mentioned then there are none. However if you were to do some proper research you will find that the phrase "to conqure and conquring" is actually renderd from the words "to overcome and overcoming" and arrows are not needed to overcome unless it is done by violence. But in the case of the antichrist he will overcome/conqure by nice and pretty words at the first which falls in line with the rest of prophecy. The antichrist will come at first speaking great words of peace, bringing great wonders and miracles with him and that is how he will conqure or overcome most of the world before he resorts to war which is why war is not mentioned until the second seal is broken because why? Because war is not what the first horseman represants which is why he has no weapons to make war with. The first horsemen is a bluff, con artist, a liar who will decieve.