TRUE MARK OF THE BEAST!

[Guest yod]

It is widely speculated that Jesus took pieces from a lot of what others were preaching and started pulling them together in a coherent philosophy.

That isn't just speculation. It is fact that Yeshua spoke to and about the contemporary thought of His day. The passage about "love your neighbor and hate your enemy" which He referred to was Essene philosophy. The "evil eye" concept was another jewish idiom.

Some of His parables are even "borrowed" from contemporary teachers of His day.

Of all the various sects of Judaism in His day, He was most closely aligned with the Pharisaical teachings from the schools of Gamaliel and Shammai...but that wasn't because He was a copycat.

If you wanted to talk to someone about how a movie is made you wouldn't necessarily go out and produce a new one. You'd speak about one that they had seen so they could understand.

Am I making any sense here?

[J.C.]

yod,

I don't have any bitterness about any of this and I hope my messages do not confer that idea. 

J.C.,

I believe you are a decent person and I appreciate that you (everyone here really...so far) don't attack me for questioning.

Debate is the best way for both sides of an issue to understand not only their position but also the other position as well which leads to greater understanding. I would love to change sides on an issue with someone and have them ask me questions from an Agnostic (or even Atheist) position and let me respond as a Christian! 

You may have missed my introduction on this board; I am Agnostic after having grown up as a Catholic. I went to Catholic schools (ST. Alphonsus and Our Lady of the Gate) in MI. I was an Altar Boy and started questioning Religion in general and Christianity in High School. Right around the time I started getting an adult view and understanding of the world and could question peoples motives etc.

Every so often I revisit my views to try and understand my beliefs. So far the only reason I don't consider myself Atheist is because I cannot grasp how the universe suddenly came into existence. Therefore I can neither confirm nor deny the existence of a supreme being.

Still searching... I am intrigued by Christianity because of its grasp on the faithful even in light of all the doubt and evidence to deny such a belief system.   

-SS

Hey, that cool. And thank you for the compliment.

Yes I did miss your introduction, as I am kind of new myself.

I do like to debate, and debating is the best way to understand something sometimes. But there are enough debaters already on these boards, and I feel lead to teach the Gospel of Christ, not just here on this website, but everywhere else. I would rather do that than debate, but I will debate if I feel lead to do so.

I am here for you, my friend. If you have a question/questions, I will do the best that I can to answer them.

I would love nothing more than to show you the Truth. But that is something God can only do, but you are going to haft to be willing to hear the truth. If you truly want to know, then open your mind and heart to God and he will reveal it to you.

In Christ's Love,

JC

[Guest Vic]

Here are my thoughts on the mark of the beast.

By not accepting the mark of the beast in the future, we will not be able to buy or sell, pay mortgages, rent, insurance, or anything else. And if these cannot be paid they will be repossessed and confiscated and we will be evicted with no place to live other than with friends or family that have accepted the mark and can provide the things we need. But how long will someone else carry us?

They will become bitter and tell us to either accept the mark or they will turn us in to the authorities, as Scripture says they will.

Edited September 30, 2004 by Vic

[Guest idied2]

The beast was already here before you were born And the mark is in your hand. The number of the beast is also in your mind. The beast is the nation you live in. The number of the beast is the number that your nation has given you. The mark is your signature. And you can't buy or sell without useing them.

2 Corinthians 6:

17 Therefore "Come out from among them And be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you."*

18 "I will be a Father to you, And you shall be My sons and daughters, Says the Lord Almighty."*

Let's take a look at this scripture. It speeks of allready being mixed with what GOD wants us to come out of. You can't come out of something you are not in.

now let's take a look at this teaching of CHRIST.

Mt 5:34

But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne;

Every time you sign your name you are swearing by something. The penalty of perjury ect.

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

[Guest TaBiblia]

2 Thessalonians 2:4 - Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 

The god of the Quran or what the Muslims call ALLAH exalts Himself above all that is called God, example would be that the Quran or better yet "Allah" stated that Jesus was nothing more than a prophet such the same with all the other prophets before Him. As we All know that JESUS IS GOD!!!,  hmmmmmm.................

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We offer these notes in hopes they will be helpful on this subject.

The number 666 is not the mark of the beast. It is one of the "brands" of the beast but it is not his mark. Now the importance of making this point is not so much that 666 is not the mark of the beast. But rather to draw attention to the fact that people believe what they believe based on traditional theories which are often incorrect. The mark of the beast is just such a subject.

Rev 13:16

"and he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand or in their foreheads:

This verse confirms that the mark will be a literal mark in the flesh and not some spiritual phenomenon. The following verse holds the key to the misunderstanding on this subject.

Rev 13:17

"and that no man might buy or sell, save that he had the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name."

Rev 13:18

"here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is six hundred three score and six.

There will be three options for the people rules by Anti-Christ insofar as what their brand will be. Notice that his mark, his name, and his number are separated by the word or. Neither of these three are the same.

The only one of the three brands which we now know about for sure is his number. Since scripture does not reveal the mark of the beast or the name of the beast any speculation about them is fruitless.

The number is that of a man and not some computer, credit card, or any other device. We do know that Anti-Christ is referred to in many ways in prophetic passages concerning him. Two of these are "foolish shepherd" and "idol shepherd" in Zech 11:15-17. Foolish shepherd simply means "worthless shepherd." Idol shepherd concerns the fact that he will demand that his image be formed for the purpose of idol worship to him.

The Hebrew and Greek languages place numerable value on each letter of their alphabet. In fact they have no separate numerable system as we have in English. Many names today no doubt have the numerable value of 666 when calculated in the Hebrew or Greek language. This alone does not, and will not, make someone the Anti-Christ.

Many people do not want their phone number, mailing address, bank cards, or anything else to include the numbers 666. This is in ignorance since the number has no present day spiritual significance at all. God requires everything to be established "in the mouth of two or three witnesses." The number 666 is only one of the ways the Anti-Christ will be identified.

Many men have come and gone who were believed to be the Anti-Christ solely by the fact that the numerical value of their name was 666. 666 is only one means of identifying Anti-Christ. It the number of his name only. It is not his name or his mark.

The Anti-Christ will not rule the entire world as we know it. SOME COUNTRIES ON HIS VERY BORDERS WILL ESCAPE HIM:

In Dan 11:41 the bible goes so far as to list some countries on the very borders of his kingdom over the which he will have no control. It does say that "many" countries will be overthrown. However, it continues on to say that others will escape him.

Dan 11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

The king of the south is Egypt and the king of north is Syria. This is a fact stated throughout Biblical accounts of these countries and there is no scriptural grounds for us to make changes in this case. We have a tendency to do away with long established Biblical people, places, and things, and make them fit our geographical and modern day time frames. This practice has left us with erroneous interpretations of many simple bible truths.

IT IS FROM SYRIA, THE BIBLICAL LAND OF THE KING OF THE NORTH, THAT THE ANTI-CHRIST WILL COME AND NOT RUSSIA --- AS BELIEVED BY MANY. The Anti-christ is even called "the Assyrian" in many passages.

DAN 11:41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but THESE SHALL ESCAPE OUT OF HIS HAND, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.

Edom was an ancient kingdom in South West Asia. It was located in the mountainous region between the Dead Sea and the Gulf of Aqaba. Edom was South of Moab. The name means: Esau, Jacob's brother. Edomites, then, are the decendents of Esau.

Moab was an ancient kingdom East and South of the Dead Sea. It is a 3000 foot plateau with very deep gorges throughout. This was the home of Ruth. It was in the plains of Moab (opposite Jericho and East of the Jordan River) that the Israelites gathered before they crossed into Canaan. The word Moab means: the son of Lot.

Ammon was an ancient kingdom East of the Dead Sea and the Jordan River. Rabbah was the capitol city of the Ammorites. It later became known in the Greek as Philadelphia. The modern day spelling is Amman and it is now the capitol city of Jordan. Ammon means: a son of Lot.

DAN 11:42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.

DAN 11:43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.

DAN 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

The seas, between which he will set up his headquarters (mentioned in the verse above) are the Dead sea and the Mediterranean sea. The glorious mountain concerns the Jewish temple and Mount Moriah. He will come to an end at the battle of Armageddon and none shall help him.

ANTI-CHRIST AT WAR

The "tidings" referred to in the following verse means more war for the Anti-christ. As I stated earlier Russia is not the king of the north. Russia is one of the countries referred to in the following verse who is defeated by Anti-christ.

DAN 11:44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.

This verse concerns a time closer to the end of his reign. These tidings will cause him to leave Jerusalem where he has made his headquarters since breaking his covenant with Israel. He will go to fight in the north and east of his kingdom. This area would be Russia, Germany and other countries in those directions. You should notice here that these countries are not under his rule at this time, once again proving that all during his reign (hese passages are fulfilled toward the end of his reign) there will be those who are not under his dictatorship.

When Anti-christ returns to Jerusalem after his wars in the East and North, the city is once again occupied by the Jews. We do not know just how long the Anti-christ will be involved in the these particular wars but it is long enough for the Jews to retake the city of Jerusalem. Jerusalem has been the capitol city for the Anti-christ's kingdom for almost three and one half years by this time.

On the very day Christ returns the Anti-christ will not even have control of the headquarters of his kingdom (Jerusalem) and will be trying to retake the city. The fact that he must war with them and try to retake the city proves that they are not under his rule during this time. So then, for a time at least, he does not even have control over the very capitol city of his kingdom.

Anti-christ will only manage to retake half of the city. At that time Christ and His Saints will come and fight against him and defeat him at the battle of Armageddon.

YOU MUST REMEMBER THAT ANTI-CHRIST WILL BE AT WAR ALL OF THE TIME HE IS IN POWER. If he is to rule the whole world and cause everyone to take his mark, as generally believed today, WHO IS HE AT WAR WITH ALL DURING HIS REIGN?

SHEEP NATIONS

In Matthew 25 all nations are seen being judged by Christ after the tribulations. They are separated as sheep from goats. The sheep nations are called "blessed of the Father". If there is no hope of redemption for anyone who takes the mark of the beast, and all nations have been under his rule and required to take his mark, where did these "blessed nations" come from.

MAT 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

MAT 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

Notice that even at this time after armageddon nations of the world will still be intact and will not have been consumed by Anti-christ. They will be judged by their actions of the past years of the Anti-christ rule. Those refered to as sheep nations obviously did not cooperate with Anti-christ or they would not be called blessed of the Father.

Remember, those who take the mark will be eternally lost with no hope of redemption. Those who do not take the mark are said to be killed by Anti-christ. These facts cannot be reconciled with the very passages you are now reading if the Anti-christ in fact ruled the whole world as we know it today.

MAT 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

MAT 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

If some countries on his very borders will not be under the rule of Anti-christ, why is it hard to believe that others will not be under his rulership as well?

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[Guest yod]

Daniel 11 was already fulfilled by Antiochus Epiphinese (sp?) in approximately 150 BC

And the judgement of the "nations" in Matthew 25 is the judgement of the gentiles for how they have treated the jews. This has nothing to do with political entities.

The rest of this? Maybe so....

[irishcowboy]

Not who are we to decide whether or not they are right.

Who are we to decided what is right for them, what they may or may not do.

There seems to be an absence of humility in this forum/board.

Look up humble, humility in the bible.  I am sure you will find many passages on it.  There are a multitude of religions here, each different beliefs, each different customs, each separate.  Every each cannot be totally, absolutely right.  Only God is totally, perfectly, absolutely right.  The only true right one does not type here.

I find such pious thoughts, words too draining, much too draining.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

the Bible, has already told us who is right....... God is right...... who is to judge? we all are suppose to judge the fruits so that we know when it is of God or not...

this would be Discernment of the spirits.......

as far as multiple religions, God is not a religion, there are multiple denominations here, but Christianity is our faith, the cement which binds us together as brothers and sisters in love..... in Christ Jesus.....

Islam is a very violent religion/life...... as a female, speaking to a male that is not a husband or father or son, could mean repercussions, such as imprissionment or beatings..... if a man lifts the vail of a woman, he is to be punished....

we, as Christians, are suppose to love everyone, we can hate the sin, but we love every one.....

if a person tells you that what you are doing is wrong are you saying that they are judging you???? maybe not..... maybe they love you enough to tell you so that you do not end up in trouble......

if a person is sinning, living in sin, would it not be to that persons benefit to have some one tell him that he is going the wrongway??? and to help guide him back to the correct path???? or would that be tooo judgemental and not tolerant enough?

we need to spread the Gosple of Christ, we also need to teach repentance, ( turning away from evil, wrong doing, not doing it again ) and be supportive of those that are trying to repent.......

if a man is out cheating on his wife, day in and day out, do we just tolerate it???

or do we judge the sin??? and get the man to repent of his doings???

in this day and age, if a person is cheating, chances are they will pick up something that they do not wish to bring home .... and that something could kill them and their family even before they know they have it....... is it being too judgemental to tell the person to change their ways, for the sake of the lives of thier family?????? oh, sorry, I guess i should let them all die a long suffering death from a desease that the cheating person picked up.....

if I am doing wrong, I want some one to stop me and say.... Mike your messin up, best get back on track..... and help me get there..... the sooner the better, cause the more I do something one way, the harder it is to change and get back on the right path......

mike

[Guest idied2]

This verse confirms that the mark will be a literal mark in the flesh and not some spiritual phenomenon. The following verse holds the key to the misunderstanding on this subject.

You haven't studied this very deeply. The translators didn't even know exactly what to translate in this passage. The literal translation would have taken up to much space and been more confussing.

The mark in the hand is the dominant hand to the notion of being in the grasp tubular and pressed in or on and being the kings signet.

The mark on the forhead is the uppermost portion of the body behind the face. Which for all intents and purposes would probably be the hair.

The Anti-Christ will not rule the entire world as we know it.

Here you have added the antichrist to the picture. antichrist is not mentioned in rev. This throws the whole meaning of rev off. The beast is a kingdom, nation

A false prophet is someone who speaks falsely in GOD'S name. So a person speakinf falsehoods in GOD's name will be in charge of a nation.

Now I don't know what nation you are in but I don't know of one that don't give every person a number for their name. and I don't know of one that doesn't require a signature to enter into bondage to the nation. Do you?

In CHRIST JESUS

[stevehut]

This theory about the name of the Beast being connected to Allah is all very amusing and interesting. Just one problem:

The book of Revelation was written deliberately "in code", so that the only the true believers could understand it. It would be only gibberish to, say, a Roman soldier who might find it.

Also, the Beast is described as a person (or institution, perhaps) who already existed at the time of the writing. And it would something/someone who would be familiar with first-century Christians.

I don't think these people knew Arabic. If I remember my history lessons correctly, the Arabic language did not have a written form until centuries later.

There's no point in handing down a prophecy that could not have been deciphered until hundreds of years later. This would have been a cruel joke to the early Christians, to give them a useless prophecy.